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WEA Feature overload? And some tipps, could help., Or why it seems the WEA have way to much faction traits
Die Hindenburg
post 31 Oct 2014, 19:55
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Ok, i dont want to critize you or asking for changes, but i feel the WEA somehow has way too many inbuilt features,

what i mean, is that they have the following:

A recycle system, that also is a secondary economy
A lot of Drones
Almost any unit has individual upgrades
EMP Damage included for several of their units
Mobile Powerplants
Two types of powerplants (and even a mobile one, making them three actually)
Versitale infantry
Versitale Aircraft
A versitale heavy tank (notice the pattern here?)

Basically they have the best shit from all ZH/Whatever ZH-Mod's faction, and seem to have none real weakness.

And how gonna the other factions look like, i mean when you then begin on we say the AC, you would either let that faction with fewer features as the WEA to spare them for the last four, the ADF and the GLF, or you would add things that will seem out of place.

Ok to explain, if you contiue to ramp up the WEA, will they literally have anything while the other factions get only some shit, like the fcking abrams (seriously, what happened to the old AC designs, like the arbiter?)
Explaining it with the subfactions is not a explaination, even then the feature blownout is too noticble.


To show how you should contiue read this:

These units were well executed, both in idea and design as well as their planned function (remember these when designing new units:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...arient#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...e-mass#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...bomber#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...stator#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...trider#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...-atlas#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...tinel1#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...hemoth#imagebox
MORE OF THESE! tongue.gif


These were not good, in design, also in their planned function seemed to lack, with explanations and suggestions if you ever try redoing these concepts again:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...-cobra#imagebox This one looked to much like a raped sioux. And it did not looked as strong as it actually was. As idea, you should add a huge ass cannon turret like the one of the real life havoc, that and add a second cannon to it, make not the cannons come out from its body.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/images/uan-v5#imagebox basically a prettier nuke-scud, nice design but it sucked hard in the beta. If you redo it: Make it stronger and more difficult to get! Such a thing is like a lightsaber, to awesome to use casually.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...imitar#imagebox while the design had some nice features, it was a overrated tank destroyer, and the complete green skin looked adwark. Less green and a bit more frightening in looks should help.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...sioux1#imagebox Badass looking, but the cannons looked way to out of place, make it like for the blackhawk's minigun and spectre gunship's howitzer, from the SIDE!!! That would be FUCKING BADASS, you would not even need to worry about looking strange, because a sidedoor cannon would beat the shit out of other designs (do it that way, it will really look badass) to compensate, it would be a ability, either switching or a reloading special attack with the howitzer.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...n-tank#imagebox as if we did not have enough railguns already. Take clues from the wave force cannon and the pandora or basilisk and other long sized (not tall, but long) artillery. It will work much better, trust me.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...ire-aa#imagebox the design was nice, but i would do an incendiary based anti air for the ADF, it perhaps just firing incendiary rounds instead of contras fireball launcher...
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...igator#imagebox the glasses looked really akward and strange, woudl have fitted the WEA more. Perhaps a straight flush typ of radar, or even better, a mobile radar dome will be fucking badass
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deep-impact/imag...knight#imagebox nice design but it the wheels, it should have been a halftrack like the arbiter for design consistencly... or a tripple cannon? tongue.gif

But hey, you did not even started on the AC, so dont take it so seriously, but just dont overload one faction with all the nice shit and leave the other factions underdeveloped.

This post has been edited by Die Hindenburg: 31 Oct 2014, 19:58
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Anubis
post 1 Nov 2014, 10:02
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Right. So far we've only presented WEA so this whole concern is not based on much info but i will try to explain better with what info you have right now. There have been some major changes in the internal plans documents for WEA, AC and ADF subfactions but that will be announce in the next update. As for WEA having to many features - not really.

Some of those features you present won't be a single faction theme like drones. This game takes place somewhere in 2060, so drones by then will no longer be a - muricah fuck yeah - feature. Now ofc drone use will different among factions, but they will be available under current plans for both WEA and AC. The WEA drones are mostly deployed around structures or have very little direct combat use, while AC will have tons of combat drones - again more on that once we present the changes. For example Athena vehicles will no longer deploy/control drones and neither will the Swarm Trooper which has suffered a huge change since we presented him. In current WEA arsenal only 1 unit controls a single type of drone and that is a defensive drone. All WEA drone control has been moved to defensive purposes for structures, because we also felt vehicle controlled/combat oriented drones are a feature we want for a different faction.

Disabling damage can be done under many weapon themes. Right now, the EMP part of WEA has been reworked and changed for a different type of disabling weapon, one that is less OP than instant-EMP-disable effect. Disabling effects will take multiple weapon forms and while the effect itself is still the same, it will be different enough based on the unit that has it and the weapon that uses it. After all even in ZH microwaves, EMP and ECM were almost identical in terms of what they did.

WEA subfactions will be pretty much on the opposite sides of gameplay under the current and most likely final subfaction plans. We realized that the old plans we're not interesting and theme unique enough so we went on a different approach here and there.
The power system WEA uses is to offer different options in mid and late game. You can chose to go with multiple small powerplants and have a higher power security, or you can build the large solar furnaces and risk having your entire defense network powered down by the destruction of one of these. The mobile powerplant built on the athena support vehicle is a huge financial investment and comes as a sacrifice over the other equality useful athena modules, and it's also a way to improve your defense's damage as that will be it's main purpose.

And now finally to actually give you the unique features of WEA - along with the subfaction change for WEA.
WEA general features:
- Upgrade kits - part of the recycling theme - grants vehicles some small bonuses depending on the vehicle.
- Defense Drones - unlocked via Special Power - key WEA structures can support defense drones around them.
- Fortress - their Tier2 tech structure is also a heavy defense.
- Tier1 unit refit - unlocked via special power - grants all tier 1 combat vehicles a choice between 2 possible upgrade options - will be detailed in a future update.

WEA Continental Defense:
- heavy multi-role defenses
- heavy use of infantry - the 2 power-suit infantry presented so far are now part of Continental Defense.
- vehicles are generally weak and either need to deploy in order to attack or can deploy into stationary defenses.
- heavy use of gunships, half of which are support oriented rather than assault oriented.
- Cryo weapons - they no longer use EMP weapons - replaced by cryo tech.
- Heavy use of photon based weapons - which is mostly an esthetic thing since damage will still be based on purpose rather than lore.
- lack of mobile heavy AA - they are the only subfaction who's heavy AA is a static defense.
- general lack of mechanized firepower and need gunship and heavy infantry support.

WEA Mechanized Assault - this faction is no longer a infantry-vehicle combo but has become literally Tank General.
- strong tanks - most powerful tanks of all factions.
- huge variety of vehicles from medium tanks to heavy tanks to light spammable vehicles.
- even though they are part of WEA, their defenses will be more or less on the same level of strength as the other factions.
- heavy use of railgun weapons.
- limited use of infantry - build more tanks!
- highly limited air force - build more tanks!
- no direct artillery - but they will have specialized defenses\building killer units.

As you can see, most of the so called features you named have either been changed or are features for other factions as well (drones or disabling weapons).

That being said - rest assured that the other factions will have some interesting toys of their own, along with unique weapons. We do plan to use as much of the old European Conflict mod as possible, but that doesn't mean that we will use the old WEA units for the new WEA and so on.
As i already said almost 2 years ago - fixed wing aircrafts will be available only for airstrikes. Ingame the only airfield dependent air units will be VTOLs. The rest of your airfights will be between gunships. So any of the old planes from either GenX or EC won't be buildable units if present at all. And while WEA is the highest tech faction in the mod, we will leave anti-gravity pods for a different faction. So the whole versatile airforce is more or less something all factions will have since most of the air combat will be done with gunships. And wait till you see what we have planned for AC as they are the airforce superiority faction smile.gif

I hope this will calm your concerns down a bit. I appreciate you're interest in the mod and the fact you care enough to post this concerns as we are still in a production stage where we welcome productive concerns smile.gif

This post has been edited by Anubis: 1 Nov 2014, 10:13
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Die Hindenburg
post 1 Nov 2014, 14:32
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I am very very thankful for the reply, Anubis. cool.gif Oh and of course, reading all the details, i am calmed down finally! biggrin.gif I really look forward how it will now develop! C:


When i designed factions my self, i had myself so much more concerns about my own ability, when i look back, most of them where hopelessly overpowered, or lame our outright cosmetically changed copies in design. It wasnt over 5 to 10 years later, today that i really now think about any design for any unit more than quadrouble. Its more of a gameplay thing, i cant draw or model units myself, i more think of changing their function completly to fit more the mods i design. If i could mod actually with coding and like, i would rather imported nice models from other mods, and changed their function, as it would make it for me easier for me (i am a lazy guy, very lazy, when it comes to creating new models)

One example was a tiberium wars mod, with a CABAL and Forgotten faction added to them.

CABAL had really weird weapon types, like he had a own weapon for every for his units (all of them marked of kane cyborgs, some vehicles from other games, some of them either Ceph vehicles from Crysis, and Geth from mass effect) like hist normal cyborg (the awakened) had his machinegun arm firing explosive flechets and hist EMP beam being a swappable weapon so he was a primary anti-infantry unit with an anti vehicle stun ability. The Enlightened cyborg in the other hand fired kinetic rockets, working more like anti-tank rifles, and flash rockets to stun infantry, making him a AT-unit with secondary infantry stun. And that are the normal infantry. His most crazy one was his commando, which fired holographic cyberspace fields that literally deleted units (sorta like a chrono legionarie, but the enemy could not notice that the were dissappearing, because no alarm would be caused) and the Reaper (that four legged cyborg) armed with nanite guns which fired a stream of bullets, affecting a huge area with low damage, but they slowed down ground unitsand when using his primary, anti air mode, he fired freaking nano nets against aircraft. IF i had designed CABAL years before i made them that way, the Awakened, Enlightened and the Reaper would have been carbon copies of their respective originals.

That shows that i had a really long way to even think about my designs, so i am actually happy to see it happing far much faster these days with designers like you Anubis, Zeke and the ROTR team. C:

This post has been edited by Die Hindenburg: 1 Nov 2014, 14:56
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Zeke
post 1 Nov 2014, 14:59
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Anubis pretty much covered everything, just one thing...

QUOTE (Die Hindenburg @ 1 Nov 2014, 2:55) *
...while the other factions get only some shit, like the fcking abrams (seriously, what happened to the old AC designs, like the arbiter?)


To be clear, the Abrams is not the AC's mbt, it's part of an AC vehicle drop called the "Steel Talon Drop" as a sort of tribute to my favorite Kane's Wrath subfaction. Essentially the AC Steel Talons is made up of USA war vets from before the AC was formed who prefer to use their old yet tested equipment rather than the shiny new experimental stuff the current AC uses.


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z741
post 1 Nov 2014, 16:05
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 1 Nov 2014, 14:59) *
Anubis pretty much covered everything, just one thing...



To be clear, the Abrams is not the AC's mbt, it's part of an AC vehicle drop called the "Steel Talon Drop" as a sort of tribute to my favorite Kane's Wrath subfaction. Essentially the AC Steel Talons is made up of USA war vets from before the AC was formed who prefer to use their old yet tested equipment rather than the shiny new experimental stuff the current AC uses.


KW is a great game. My fav factions were Steel Talons for the walkers, MoK (Comon who cant resist inhumane soldiers packing particle beams mindfuck.gif), and Traveler 59 for its air force.

When are we gonna see new updates for DI? Moddb has been too quiet.


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Die Hindenburg
post 1 Nov 2014, 17:46
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 1 Nov 2014, 14:59) *
Anubis pretty much covered everything, just one thing...



To be clear, the Abrams is not the AC's mbt, it's part of an AC vehicle drop called the "Steel Talon Drop" as a sort of tribute to my favorite Kane's Wrath subfaction. Essentially the AC Steel Talons is made up of USA war vets from before the AC was formed who prefer to use their old yet tested equipment rather than the shiny new experimental stuff the current AC uses.


I am very thankful for the responses! C:
Ah very cool, thats a nice use for the Abrams it makes both more awesome and still classic in use. biggrin.gif
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