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Posted by: Jester 18 Jun 2009, 22:16

For a while now i have noticed alot of people have been in the dark about the Counter part that gave ROTR the great european faction.
I made this thread so that people can see what a Manticore tank or some other unit is and so theyll stop asking me or someone else everytime i metion it so any way here we go. Please also note that a few of these units have been cut from ROTR such as the harrier and the Eurofighter.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Waffen,163,13885,1.html
Infatry weapons.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,XA200,163,13886,1.html
XA200.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Leopard,163,13875,1.html
Leopard tank.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Lynx,163,13876,1.html
Lynx helicopter.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Manticore,163,13877,1.html
Manticore Tank.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Mars,163,13878,1.html
MLRS.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Pandur,163,13879,1.html
Pandur.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,PZH,163,13880,1.html
PZH.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Stealth,163,13881,1.html
Stealth Tank.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Tiger,163,13882,1.html
Tiger Gunship Helicopter.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Truck,163,13884,1.html
Truck.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Airbus,163,13859,1.html
Airbus A400.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,B52,163,13860,1.html
UK B52 bomber.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Dozer,163,13862,1.html
EU Dozer.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Eurofighter,163,13863,1.html
Eurofighter.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Gepard,163,13864,1.html
Gepard.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Harrier,163,13865,1.html
Harrier.

http://www.cnc-inside.de/image,Kobra,163,13866,1.html
Kobra Neutron Tank.


http://www.cnc-inside.de/image-kat,163,1,0,0.html ....... Page 1 of website.
http://www.cnc-inside.de/image-kat,163,1,0,0.html ....... Page 2 of website.

Hope this has helped you all.

Jester.

Posted by: BlitzGeneral 18 Jun 2009, 22:54

Damn shame about the Tiffy being cut. I hope ECA has some decent anti-air...

Posted by: tenma91 18 Jun 2009, 23:15

Thank you, Jester.

I found that pretty helpful.

Posted by: NergiZed 18 Jun 2009, 23:20

Yeah, that stuff is old. IMO, I wouldn't be surprised if half those units aren't in RotR and all the models that do make it will prolly be revamped. (Old Models/Textures are OLD).

I think the ECA aren't getting neutron weapons; I believe it was mentioned a while back somewhere.

Also, something like the M.A.R.S. will probably not make it since that is probably the blandest of the bland in terms of military weapons.

All the above is speculation btw.

Posted by: Jester 18 Jun 2009, 23:21

no problem dude anytime im glad im helping

Posted by: Edsato82 18 Jun 2009, 23:34

nice pictures

Posted by: Shock 19 Jun 2009, 0:13

Yeah, take for example the PZH from those pictures. Claymore is what it is now.

Posted by: ka1000 19 Jun 2009, 0:20

god some of those models+ skins where really awful =/

Posted by: Pickysaurus 19 Jun 2009, 0:20

Either way its good to look back at the history... gives fans something to do between updates lol

Nice work Jester

Posted by: DerKrieger 19 Jun 2009, 0:31

The PZH-2000 will still be in RotR as General Wolfgang's artillery unit.

Posted by: Jester 19 Jun 2009, 1:11

Thanks no problem

Posted by: Comr4de 19 Jun 2009, 2:41

Wont be what it appears there however, you should expect a totally new model/skin

Posted by: Pickysaurus 19 Jun 2009, 2:58

I guess the units will also be more blue colour as opposed to the blue/green shades in these images?

Posted by: CommanderJB 19 Jun 2009, 5:22

I hope you guys don't mind me interjecting this, but because expectations can lead to problems on sites like ModDB where I have to deal with people who act like they're five years old and their favourite toy has just been taken away, I'd just like to forestall some wrong conclusions and expectations if any were or would be made. The important thing to remember when looking at these is that the European side from Rise of Europe served more as an inspiration for what is now the ECA rather than being the actual basis for it. AFAIK plans have evolved from what they were when the mods integrated, and while all these are interesting to look at and pose interesting questions I'd caution anyone against thinking that what you see here will automatically become part of Rise of the Reds, and on those which have, particularly the visuals will be completely updated from their originals (and often significant gameplay elements as well).

Posted by: Turret89 19 Jun 2009, 12:51

Does anyone know what generals were planned for RoE (If there were any)?

Posted by: CommanderJB 19 Jun 2009, 16:11

I have definitely heard about a Space General with space-capable Eurofighters, but I don't know either any details or any others.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 19 Jun 2009, 18:10

Are there no members of the original ROE team with SWR then?

Posted by: CommanderJB 19 Jun 2009, 18:17

Sir-Maddoc, RoE creator, is on the Rise of the Reds team.

Posted by: Jester 19 Jun 2009, 19:27

What does he do on the team because i havent seen any models or skins done by him for the mod so far does he code??

Posted by: CommanderJB 19 Jun 2009, 19:58

I'm not sure, you'd have to get an answer from those who work with him. But as you have acknowledged, there is far more to contributing to a mod than making models and skins or code.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 19 Jun 2009, 20:50

There's also the publicity stuff
Which I believe is your role JB?

Posted by: NergiZed 19 Jun 2009, 23:01

Actually, I'm the official 'Public Relations Manager', but basically anyone on the team can post on Moddb. Comr4de and JB usually post the stuff onto Moddb if I don't do it within the hour. (The June Updates and the Race to 1.5 updates were all launched while I was vacationing in the Maldives). I also have a small list of sites that I post news on when releases come out.

But yeah, there are many roles in the team. Mapping, Skinning, Modeling, Coding, SFX, GFX, etc.

Posted by: DerKrieger 19 Jun 2009, 23:51

Yeah (those space-capable EF-2000s would have been the coolest thing ever), there was going to be a French "Space General" as well as a British "Special Forces General," a German "Siege General," and a "Neutron General."

The info is from [url=http://www.cnc-inside.de/inhalt-page,Mod-Interviews--Rise-of-Europe-Interview,2,2033.html]here{/url]. It's in German so if you don't speak it you may be able to translate it via online translator. Also included is a discussion of the original General Powers for the ECA.

Rank 1: Manticore Unlock, Pandur Veteran training, Spy Sattelite

Rank 3: Rocket Strike (6 rockets fired from command center- leave mines behind after detonation), Drop Gun (3 levels- probably very similar to Super Weapon General's air-dropped turrets. Level 1 got you one MG turret, level 2 gives you two MG turrets and level 3 gives you four MG turrets.), Smart Bomb (3 levels of power- increasingly more powerful- level 3 apparently has a small nuclear warhead), Emergency Repair (same as for all factions)

Rank 5: Neutron Bomb (kills infantry and vehicle pilots), APS (Anti-Projectile Shield; an energy shield is deployed around friendly units in the designated area), Ariane 5 (launches an Ariane rocket that reveals the entire map for a brief period of time).

Of course, all of this is subject to change

Posted by: Pickysaurus 20 Jun 2009, 0:01

That all sounds fairly balance in relation to Russia.
But I'm sure SWR can do better ^.^

Posted by: Zhao 20 Jun 2009, 9:03

How do you balance AA units arty and Tesla , oh yeah , you cant =/

these models need a make over ^^

Posted by: CommanderJB 20 Jun 2009, 9:33

Sorry? Whyever not? AA units and artillery have been balanced since vanilla Generals, and Tesla is simply a particular type of tank or static defence which trades effectiveness against light targets and infantry for armour or power consumption and cost respectively - hence, balanced).
Are you saying that every AA, artillery, and Tesla unit in the game needs a remodel? Really?

Posted by: Rayburn 20 Jun 2009, 10:05

^ I think he's referring to the old ECA models back in the first post, JB.

Posted by: CommanderJB 20 Jun 2009, 11:14

Oh, I see. The hats confused me into thinking it referred to the line above and not the OP. Apologies.

Posted by: Turret89 20 Jun 2009, 12:11

Thanks for the answer, very interesting.
I wonder if those space eurofighters would work like the GDI firehawks with stratofighter(?) upgrade.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 20 Jun 2009, 14:22

I think probably just acted like the Nuke Missile for China, went up and came down at a different location... but were planes, not a weapon

Posted by: KamuiK 20 Jun 2009, 18:15

For your interest, the idea that they behaved like stratofighters is right. I asked some people (like Crusader) some years ago. Sir-Maddoc was also really enthusiastic about Space Eurofighters, but as we all know, we will likely not see them (because of the known facts etc...). Let us just see how the ROTR ECA comes out.

Posted by: SgtRho 20 Jun 2009, 18:55

I'm still looking forward to the Manticore

Posted by: The_Hunter 20 Jun 2009, 19:31

I don't realy get why you love that thing so much it's a basicly a butchered mammoth tank and the old model they used back then is quite low quality aswell, hell even the barrels are lacking a texture all togeteher.

Posted by: SgtRho 20 Jun 2009, 19:41

I don't know, there is just something about it that makes it more awesome that other mammoths...

Posted by: The_Hunter 20 Jun 2009, 19:43

well the one model you see in those renders is certainly not even Maddoc thinks it's outdated by now

Posted by: Rayburn 20 Jun 2009, 21:10

Just wait until you see the new Manticore.

Posted by: Sir-Maddoc 20 Jun 2009, 21:12

yeah even the last beta of RoE had a better model than the one in the render ... but yeah wait till you see the new one :-D

Posted by: Jester 20 Jun 2009, 21:19

After you said that this is what is happening to me now

Posted by: Pickysaurus 21 Jun 2009, 1:29

I can't wait

Posted by: Shock 21 Jun 2009, 1:47

ECA sure has a lot of big vehicles with the Manticore, Claymore and Jagdmammut

Posted by: Suvorov 21 Jun 2009, 16:17

Who cares?!?!? ECA is going to be (probably) the most powerful faction. If nothing else they may be the solution to the overpowered russians. And I can't wait to see the new manticore

EDIT: A lot of the original RoE models really aren't very good/original. As stated above the manticore is a really bad mammoth tank that isn't even fully textured. And the european B-52? Come on.

Posted by: Shock 21 Jun 2009, 21:26

Near the end none of the factions should be the most powerful. Not ECA, nor Russia.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 22 Jun 2009, 0:45

Yeah or you can say bye-bye to a decent and fair game.

Posted by: Balizk 22 Jun 2009, 5:06

The space eurofighter is an interesting idea with a "space general" lol

Posted by: DerKrieger 23 Jun 2009, 3:36

I wonder...is there any more info about Rise of Europe that isn't available on Cnc-inside.de? I remember there used to be a forum on ThunderMods but when it went down so too did the mod project. Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised to find something similar to the Space Eurofighter in ROTR...remember how they said that the Aurora bomber was going to be back, but with major changes?

Posted by: Pickysaurus 23 Jun 2009, 3:44

So you think the Aurora might jump into space but have to fly back like a normal plane?

Posted by: C.o.m.m.a.n.d.e.r 23 Jun 2009, 3:55

scrap the aurora and make the A-10 a buildable plane

Posted by: Jester 23 Jun 2009, 11:04

Id like to see the A400 airbus come back yes i known european airfield where bombed but the GLA have a plane and where the hell would they hide that if they are a sort of terrorist organization. so i dont see why the airbus cant come back apart from the team not wanting it.

Posted by: CommanderJB 23 Jun 2009, 11:35

I'd have to say that it's worthwhile mulling over the fact that fighter bases would, purely hypothetically, be the primary targets of any potential Russian air raid.
...but as for RotR, who knows?

Posted by: Pickysaurus 23 Jun 2009, 15:44

That hypothesis doesn't really match the Russian gameplay.

Russia don't seem at all geared toward air dominance and their planes fail in comparison to the USA/China
(Fighter is weak and bomber is so slow it gets taken out)

Posted by: Nidmeister 23 Jun 2009, 15:59

Which is why Russia would in fact be going in for the ECA airfields.
If they allow for European dominance in the skies, they would be laying their ground force at risk.
And the Berkut is infact rather powerful, I havent been able to playtest for a while, but afaik its counterparts, the Raptor and the MiG don't have any mounted cannons, they have to rely on their own payload and fly back to rearm. If the Berkut uses up its payload it can still use its cannons to mow any remaining threats down.
On top of that, it doesn't go down easily at all, and it even has a barrel roll feature to throw off incoming fire. It can practically fly past a gattling cannon almost unscathed.

Posted by: CommanderJB 23 Jun 2009, 16:07

We know that the European War opened with a mass Russian air raid carried out by strategic and tactical aviation against ECA defence assets. The key targets attacked were airfields, with the Russian general staff having concentrated their available resources into a largely successful attempt to deny the ECA their mainline air-superiority assets in order to allow the armoured columns (whose heavy AA is not the world's most readily mobile) to advance under air cover. One could even credit this air superiority (forcing the ECA to rely on artillery for ranged support) and the resultant availability of strike aircraft (which Russian forces then utilise in the pattern of 'cab-rank' airstrikes to aid their advance) with a large share of their victories, including Berlin. However, given a finite number of bombers and a limited range, what are you going to prioritise - frontal interceptor bases or rear-echelon transport wings?

Posted by: Pickysaurus 23 Jun 2009, 16:17

Requires marcoing though, which isn't always as easy as it sounds. I find the machine gun pretty limited, it seems to fire once and go back to base.




I see, nobody knows the lore like the creators
I guess the Russians have an advanced bombing airforce, which just isn't featured in ROTR (unless there happens to be a campaign)

Posted by: Nidmeister 23 Jun 2009, 16:25

No micro required, you just click the icon along the command bar.
Not from my experience, it will keep firing at aerial targets, not so sure about ground targets.
If it stops, then you re-issue the attack command and it will carry out the cannon fire again.
It may be a pain, but it's still something that other superiority fighters lack.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 23 Jun 2009, 16:55

The way i play (vZH style) you give you planes an attack or defend order and move up your ground forces...
Although I am very air-power oriented. I work in waves rather than individual aircraft

Posted by: Nidmeister 23 Jun 2009, 17:04

Yes, but you can still select a group of Berkuts and move them past enemy lines almost unscathed with a click of a single button, and the cannon still gives the Berkut the edge. The mod is not designed to fit around your playing style, or anyones for that matter. My argument here bieng that the Berkut is not in fact a weak aircraft, and Russia can still win air superiority.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 23 Jun 2009, 17:52

Alright, well you have your opinions of the Berkut, and I have mine.
I didn't say it was suppose to fit my playing style. I just find it hard going to have to select the plane to have it dodge missiles. Guess it works out overall in the balance of things though. In the current BETA that's the only actual missile defence russia has.

Posted by: Destiny 23 Jun 2009, 18:44

You're correct here, a Berkut going head-on with a Raptor one-on-one _usually_ means downing both fighters...and we know which faction cares for their...err...parachutes.


Edit: Uhhh...I sense Rise of Europe is trying to zombify itself and bite Rise of the Reds

Posted by: Beef 24 Jun 2009, 1:54

The Russian Air Force is actually quite powerful but unfortunately not cost effective at all. If anything, their rotary craft was where it's at. The Hind and Hokum can make for a versatile (and deadly) combo but once again, it will cost you.

Posted by: Kirasama 24 Jun 2009, 2:03

IIRC Rusia didnt hit all airports, as UK still has some of them operational, but i can remember if they were secret ones or something

It will be interesting to know how is the situation in France, Spain and Portugal as they are the part of Europe most distance from Rusia, then again i assume the Spanish aircraft will crash themselves again

Posted by: Shock 25 Jun 2009, 18:47

when totally true to the real world it's not realistic to say that Russia took out all European jet airpower, but it's good enough for the fiction in the mod.

Posted by: Overdose 26 Jun 2009, 3:26

We never implied all of the fixed wing aircraft were destroyed. However, enough of them were lost for them to stop being a commodity and are now used very sparingly. Although there are old aircraft locked up in bunkers, most of the pilots are dead as well. There are cases though of retired military pilots granting their services to the Resistance. This is however beyond the scope of what's playable in the game.

Posted by: KamuiK 26 Jun 2009, 13:01

Interestingly you posted a new possible tech building, a capturable airport, with this Anyway as the story went on in Z:H, when China defeated the GLA, why did they leave Europe alone later on?

Posted by: Overdose 26 Jun 2009, 17:21

http://rotr.swr-productions.com/storyline.php

Has the answers you seek.

Posted by: KamuiK 27 Jun 2009, 14:55

Seems like I overwent it then, have to read it now. Thank you Overdose.
Edit: Seems like I found an interesting mistake in the part after the first picture:
[...]NSAU member states do not trust themselves[...] This is hard if you cannot trust yourself, is it not?^^

Posted by: CommanderJB 27 Jun 2009, 19:38

That's not a mistake, it's entirely intentional; I'm sure Overdose, who wrote it, will settle this himself, but as I understand it the general idea is that the South American states have deep political differences which mean that they are unlikely to allow peacekeeping troops from each other into their own territories. The preferred option, then, is Russia, who has a strong military-technical and trade relationship with many of them, plus considerable military resources to spare.

Posted by: KamuiK 28 Jun 2009, 0:34

Well, when I though it should be 'each other' instead of 'themselves', I was probably mistaken. If it was indeed intentional, I am sorry.

Posted by: Overdose 28 Jun 2009, 2:07

It is exactly as JB has put it. You are however correct it should have been 'each other'. I apologize. My first language is very different from english and sometimes there are little errors that slip by unnoticed.

Posted by: BlitzGeneral 28 Jun 2009, 4:29

My fanfiction sense is tingling.

Posted by: oo6red 28 Jun 2009, 6:20

Perhaps it is something already reported, but I have had an issue where aircraft still patrol the skies, completely unarmed. I guess this makes sense for the SU-47, with its cannon, but the same thing happens with F-22s and MiG-1.44s as well.


This seems likely, as even now South American states tend to have major differences. Any organisation like UNAS would compound these issues, to be sure.

Posted by: Suvorov 28 Jun 2009, 16:17

I have never had this problem... wierd

Posted by: KamuiK 29 Jun 2009, 12:54

This is quite an annoying bug, because it sometimes happens the Raptor fires its missiles but not its laser designator (which is a dummy weapon). But it never happened for me with the MiG.