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Early game USA build orders?
Arcanus
post 6 Mar 2017, 5:22
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What's a build order that you've found to work well for an early game US harass? I've tried 8-man Ranger drops, and Raptors for hunting dozers, but I'm wondering if there's anything else that works. I'm pretty new to the competitive multiplayer side of C&C, with most of my previous games being casual LAN matches where we all just fought the AI.
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(USA)Bruce
post 6 Mar 2017, 9:14
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What map and agaisnt what faction?

If you do not know the faction then after going dual dozers into preferebly get a recon drone

-powerplanat
-Second dozer to farther away supply
-Dual supply centers
-Go for warfactory (Airfield is also an option but you need more experiance with it before you get experimental.)
After that depends on the map and faction,


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Arcanus
post 6 Mar 2017, 16:36
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Assuming it's a large map, lots of expansions, and it's against a GLA/ECA general. That's usually a match up I get.
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Zion
post 6 Mar 2017, 17:30
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I made a vid on usa long time ago, here is what bruce means by the build order, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCZ9Z5MjG0&t=256s that's pretty standard build for most factions

as far as unit production.. dont start with an avenger like I did, that was a thing back in the old rotr builds in usa mirrors. and you should technically always build one scout drone tongue.gif usially if a player picks a faction, I already know what to build so i scout with units instead.

With the new patch you want to start with humvees, and make rangers for oil capture.
vs GLA, you wana go humvee spam, and dont upgrade tow missle, vees counter duska nests, you need 2 humvees to kill a dushka effectively, and 2 vees with micro can kill off quads.

vs ECA, you want to tech up tier1 asap, unless your opponent went war factory start and field promotion and is sending aa to your base, then build like 3 humvees and upgrade tow missle.

Vs Russia, you can go vee spam or drone early harrasment

vs China, vee spam and quickly transition to tier1

vs USA, its a balance on early harassment and how quick u can tech up to tier2, usually a quick game

as far as what to build after your start, that comes with experience, you kind of just need to learn on your own, there are unit combinations for every situation out there

This post has been edited by Zion: 6 Mar 2017, 17:38
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Arcanus
post 6 Mar 2017, 22:27
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Alright, I'll definitely be trying these out. Thanks!
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Jet02
post 7 Mar 2017, 7:31
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QUOTE (Zion @ 7 Mar 2017, 0:30) *
2 vees with micro can kill off quads.


How exactly?
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Hanfield
post 7 Mar 2017, 7:55
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QUOTE (Jet02 @ 7 Mar 2017, 8:31) *
How exactly?

Get TOW - fire two - back off - go in, fire two more - back off - go in, fire two more - dead.


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XoGamer
post 7 Mar 2017, 9:00
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One ranger with micro and about 7min can kill a Blackbear.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 7 Mar 2017, 9:10
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QUOTE (Hanfield @ 7 Mar 2017, 7:55) *
Get TOW - fire two - back off - go in, fire two more - back off - go in, fire two more - dead.


This is known as kiting, and vees are the gods of kiting in rotr


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Zion
post 7 Mar 2017, 13:56
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you dont need tow to micro, in zh micro is mainly sending your damaged units back before they die, letting the second unit attack, and if the other player is not microing his targets, then that (for example) quad will keep following that vee it first started firing at, and vees are faster units so the damaged vee will out run the quad and the second vee will finish the quad.

this can be done with any units in the game, just see which unit is getting fired at, and send it back before it dies, if you have the best micro ever you can preserve a small to medium army without loses, and the other player will be scratching their head wondering why his larger army just lost to a no brainer.

army formation is big too, keep units in a formation, and allow more units to fire, instead of sending them in a line to death
sending targeted units back, will cause the opponents units to follow, and break out of position, so you are basically trying to keep your positioning perfect and ruining your opponents, that's micro

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Jet02
post 8 Mar 2017, 7:12
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 7 Mar 2017, 16:00) *
One ranger with micro and about 7min can kill a Blackbear.


Somebody should make this a minigame
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XoGamer
post 8 Mar 2017, 7:47
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QUOTE (Zion @ 7 Mar 2017, 12:56) *
army formation is big too, keep units in a formation, and allow more units to fire, instead of sending them in a line to death
sending targeted units back, will cause the opponents units to follow, and break out of position, so you are basically trying to keep your positioning perfect and ruining your opponents, that's micro


How do you do formations in Generals? This is actually crucial 4 me, I didn't know this. Wait, is there an actual defined formation or when you say that do you just mean putting them in a "formation" yourself - in which case it's near impossible with China and small spaces

QUOTE (Jet02 @ 8 Mar 2017, 6:12) *
Somebody should make this a minigame


Hmm....
No they shouldn't
Unless you can make the map in which ok


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Marakar
post 8 Mar 2017, 8:30
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QUOTE (Jet02 @ 8 Mar 2017, 9:12) *
Somebody should make this a minigame


Actually i'm working on a custom micro minigame where you utilize two venoms to survive against another player for 15 minutes (there's a lot of custom modifications such as the player against the venoms can build blackbear and manticore). Based on testing, its extremely useful for practicing micro (requires two players however since its a 1v1).

Will probably upload that on the custom maps section soon.


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Jet02
post 8 Mar 2017, 12:11
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 8 Mar 2017, 14:47) *
How do you do formations in Generals? This is actually crucial 4 me, I didn't know this. Wait, is there an actual defined formation or when you say that do you just mean putting them in a "formation" yourself - in which case it's near impossible with China and small spaces


Ctrl+f. The units you select move in step in whatever formation they were in when you hit the keys. Until they meet an obstacle, that is. Then it all goes haywire.

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ZunZero97
post 13 Mar 2017, 4:26
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 7 Mar 2017, 5:10) *
This is known as kiting, and vees are the gods of kiting in rotr

''Kiting'' is an MOBA vocabulary. Kiting refers to attacking an enemy with ranged attacks or abilities while maintaining a safe distance.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 13 Mar 2017, 6:07
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Zun, kiting has been an RTS term since the 90's, long before Moba's were even an idea.


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XoGamer
post 13 Mar 2017, 8:45
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Kiting has always been a gaming term, not just IN RTS but in many other real time games such as RPG (diablo) and many others. Heck, I'm pretty sure that AoE players used that term.

Anyhoo, continue your dicussion.


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Jet02
post 13 Mar 2017, 12:52
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How about vanguard spam? Those pack a punch you just need to make sure you don't lose momentum after the drones expire.

This post has been edited by Jet02: 13 Mar 2017, 12:54
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(USA)Bruce
post 13 Mar 2017, 13:30
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QUOTE (Jet02 @ 13 Mar 2017, 14:52) *
How about vanguard spam? Those pack a punch you just need to make sure you don't lose momentum after the drones expire.

Depends on the stage of the game, but generally they are the ideal spam unit lategame.

They got a nice aoe agaisnt Infantry

Shoguns good vs light units like technicals and quads,

Even if they arent ideal agaisnt quads the drone deals 20 Infantry missle damage I think and compared to a missle defender that fires 40

Its pretty good for just being 100 more then a standart missle defender, hell theese things can counter shocks like no tommrow

Add in vet company and chemical suits and you got yourself a good frontline unit.

Only issue is that it deals nearly no damage agaisnt stuff like dragon tanks and they got a high build time.

Maybe not "really high" like tommahawks but you'll need around 30% more barrack per barracks then if you would rather go for ranger and MD spam.

But then again who even builds MD's unless your going full infantry and you need some light AA


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Tempestt
post 14 Mar 2017, 3:58
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Call me crazy, as I guess I have a pretty unorthodox start to my games, but what I'll do usually is get 2 Dozers, 2-3 Scout drones, build a power plant with one Dozer, barracks with other, drive second Dozer to secondary supply after barracks while the first builds the primary supply, pump out 3 Rangers (4 if there is an oil near my base I can send one to) and 3 Missile Defenders, buy two Chinooks, let the Osprey collect one bundle of supplies while the infantry train, then load them up in the osprey, send them where I didn't send the second Dozer, usually. Great for establishing map presence really quick, if additional infantry runs are needed, I guess thats doable too. I usually start building airfield right after supply center too, which is risky. Leaves me open for ground attack. But if all goes well and I get a hunter-killer to dozer/scout/supply truck hunt that should prevent, deter, or at least minimize the effectiveness any super-early rushes, plus I normally have some infantry to guard my base. I then (also risky! I don't always do this, can vary with match/map/opponent's faction) go for the Detention Camp. Get rocket pods so the Chinooks can defend my base, lead attacks, whatever. I love the damn Chinooks. Then I get the supply lines upgrade. I actually appreciate the viper's rocket pods too. I make at least 1 Raptor and if I have heavy map awareness more. Raptors and map awareness+control are a deadly combo from my experience. I normally then make my war factory (late I know.) make some crusaders, a couple, microwaves and an avenger or two. I guess this continued into early-medium game, but I figured I'd share because I didn't see anything too much like it. P.S. I do play against humans, I just kinda have my own group of friends and we all play on a private network hosted by our own VPS. We're all really competitive, so this shouldn't be bad advice. One of my friends is crazy good, he used to play like star craft competitively or something. I've loaded up SWR.net a few times in the past and faired pretty well, at least against some players. (I got destroyed by RikerZZZ once or twice) I also didn't elaborate on all the units I make between the airfield and detention camp, there's normally alot of infantry, and the second Dozer usually makes a second barracks. Theres also sometimes a blackhawk or viper involved. I replace the hunter-killer with a viper against GLA, to kill workers. I also always try to reinforce my infantry units with vanguards when I can train them. Vanguards are wonderful. I need to try using their mines more often. Or at all.

So basically, if you dont want to read all my rambling,

1:) Reactor
2:) barracks
3:) supply center
4:) send dozer to somehwere to get map control
5:) chinooks+infantry+airfield
6:) use osprey to send squad where you didnt send dozer
7:) hunterkiller/viper to hunt builders/supply gatherers/scouts
8:) detention camp or I guess, if you want, drone center.
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ZunZero97
post 14 Mar 2017, 4:04
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My early game:
-Start with GP Veteran company
-Build +1 Dozer and a recon drone and send it to spy enemy's movement
-Build a Barracks
-Build a CFReactor
-Supply center
- +1 Osprey
-Build a expansion supply(optional: in some maps very large, build a Drone Hive base defense near your 2nd supply)
-Build Airfield
-Build a Blackhawk
-Meanwhile you wait a BlackHawk is producing build a second airfield
-Build an BlackHawk in your 2nd airfield
-Your 1st Blackhawk is created, set a priority:
Anti-Air vehicles and AA Defences And press ''X'' when Rangers are in the rappel they will scatter because some based bullets weapons have AoE damage.
-Try to micro your Rangers and pay attention on your supply lines too.
gl hf wink.gif


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Arcanus
post 7 Apr 2017, 1:16
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Well, thank you everyone for all the tips you gave! They came in really handy when I tried a couple games.
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