IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Shockwave Issues
-ReLaX
post 23 Nov 2015, 15:52
Post #1



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



Hi guys,

I spoke today with Hunter and he was okay to open such a topic free for discussion.
In here I will post all major issues I have found so far sorted by armies.
Attached you can also find some tables I did to back some points up.
I didn't test every single unit which is quite impossible in a short time, but a few of them.
I am just testing now without looking at the inis.

-----------------------------------------------------

General:

1) More micro-intensive would be to let units and specifically defense structures not shoot through buildings or supplies. taking that back adds micro, which is a nice and small tweak.
2) Bullfrog should be observed in terms of drive speed and build time.
3) USA Spectre gun ship do massive damage even on level 1. Level 1 shouldn't be able to take out 1 supply stash easily. Reduce the seconds in air or weapon a little bit.
4) Decrease build time of all saboteur by a few seconds.
5) China Long range unit (granadier) as T0 unit shouldn't be available for free as it makes the game slower (more defense opportunities). Make them level 3 and descrease build time.

USA:

Airforce:
1) Not able to turn the sound off from the Combat Chinook.
2) Acolyte Drone is indeed anyoing, BUT some weapons are just good to take them down. It's an early game unit and it should stay like this I would say. I would increase to $400 and that's it.

Laser:
1) Laser Stealth Fighter should need gen promotion lvl or strat center.

Armor:
1) Strategy Center does not shoot with bombardement mode.
2) Gathering 1,4 to 1,5 stronger as all other generals. As 3 trucks are optimum for this general the truck income should be $300 instead of $450 to reach the $5500 per minute. [See 1st supply]
3) Gladiator should be strong vs infantry and aircrafts, but it takes long to kill infantry. Is there something wrong with this unit?

SW:
1) Rods from God Strike dealing too much damage.
2) Turret Paradrop can land isnide supplies.
3) Make Philadelphia Rift attackable while moving. Should need gen promotion 3 star.

GLA:

Salvage:
1) The Quad Cannon Tank maybe has an armour problem. It takes 24 shots with an RPG to take it down. 15 is a usual number. As this unit's name is Quad Cannon Tank 18 shots would also be enough. [See Armor and Firepower & here]

Demo:
1) Whenever I use a combat bike I have funny graphic problems.

Stealth:
1) Bikes are now cheaper, thats okay! But keep in mind these guys are stealthed. I recommend to set the firepower a little bit back against vehicles and buildings OR increase the costs to $400 at least. [See here]
2) Stealth was suppost do do sneaky attacks and not to face tanks head to head, therefore increase the cobra price a little by $50 or $100.
3) What's the real purpose of the Mobile Supply Stash?
4) Decrease build time of hijacker by a few seconds and make him available after the army dealer.

Special:
1) Napalm Strike might be too strong. Level 1 kills strat center already.
2) RPG Tropper has signal flares, does it have an effect?

-----------------------------------------------------

We are open to dicuss and back things up with anyything which is appropriate; mostly replays.
Please if you respond on any point name the army and the number to a reference, thanks.

Cheers, ReLaX.

This post has been edited by -ReLaX: 26 Nov 2015, 22:38
Attached File(s)
Attached File  1st_supply.rar ( 9.86K ) Number of downloads: 0
Attached File  Armor_and_Firepower.rar ( 7.52K ) Number of downloads: 0
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FabulousPug
post 23 Nov 2015, 23:00
Post #2



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 67
Joined: 7 May 2015
Member No.: 11275



Some stuff you might or might not add:

Leang:
In my opinion, Blacksharks with machineguns upgrade are too strong. They shoot in an AoE, are tougher (at least seem to be) than Commanches for example with ridiculous air-to-ground firepower when used in groups. What I'm trying to say is, to counter them by ground AA forces, one needs to spend more money for AA than the other player for the Blacksharks. This is my opinion of course and I don't have any actual proof, maybe some more testing should be done.

Salvage:
Desert Flies seem to be far too fragile to do anything useful with their standard attack, which is very weak. The bombs alternative would also be better if the D.Flies has some more armor/hp. (never used them vs another player, so others would know more about this)



General Challenge issues:
- Granger has no power in his fully built base
- Leang can't produce Buratinos and Hammer Cannons because they get stuck in her War Factories.
(could make her too hard to beat, but still...)
- Townes doesn't activate his defensive laser turrets as he should
- Tao launches his nukes on random locations. Should probably target the most-costly-AoE group of your units/buildings
(could make him much more difficult to beat...)
- Juhziz challenge played on Easy, Medium and Hard doesn't have many (if any) difference in difficulty
- Kwai, after some time, stops producing units
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-ReLaX
post 23 Nov 2015, 23:59
Post #3



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



QUOTE
Leang:
In my opinion, Blacksharks with machineguns upgrade are too strong. They shoot in an AoE, are tougher (at least seem to be) than Commanches for example with ridiculous air-to-ground firepower when used in groups. What I'm trying to say is, to counter them by ground AA forces, one needs to spend more money for AA than the other player for the Blacksharks. This is my opinion of course and I don't have any actual proof, maybe some more testing should be done.

Salvage:
Desert Flies seem to be far too fragile to do anything useful with their standard attack, which is very weak. The bombs alternative would also be better if the D.Flies has some more armor/hp. (never used them vs another player, so others would know more about this)


Blacksharks: What's AoE? Didn't use any Blacksharks, but will try next time.

Flies: I used them once and I can say they have strange behaviour which makes them hard to handle. I have also the feeling that its not worth the cost.

This post has been edited by -ReLaX: 24 Nov 2015, 0:00


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zeke
post 24 Nov 2015, 4:14
Post #4


The X General
Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 2117
Joined: 7 June 2009
From: Philippines
Member No.: 73
Uniqueness is Overrated



QUOTE
Armor:
1) Strategy Center does not shoot with hold the line mode.


Isn't that true for all Strategy Centers? Or are you talking about Bombardment mode?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-ReLaX
post 24 Nov 2015, 8:29
Post #5



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



True. Good that someone read!

Ist that True for all USA?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FabulousPug
post 24 Nov 2015, 9:52
Post #6



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 67
Joined: 7 May 2015
Member No.: 11275



*POSTED TWICE BY MISTAKE*

Blackshark thing:
Blackshark are Leang's choppers or am I mixing them with vChina's? 8Ip.png

Anyway, when they fire on a unit, for example, anything that's very close will get damaged as well. I experienced that in the Leang challenge, when I had some AA vehicles around my CC. Choppers came and attacked the AA tank which was right next to CC and my CC was getting damaged badly. Same happened when I had my AA grouped close together and they all were getting damaged. The AoE is small but it works as long as stuff is one right next to the other. I guess I'll test it to be sure, right now I'm like 98% sure.. smile.gif)

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 24 Nov 2015, 9:55
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-ReLaX
post 24 Nov 2015, 13:13
Post #7



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



vChina has the Tiger and Special has the KA-50 Blackshark, that's right.
If the radius is really too bug it's a problem for sure.
Up to now I never tried this unit as i started with the generals which are available in standard ZH.

ReLaX


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GeneralCamo
post 24 Nov 2015, 22:08
Post #8


That person
Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 1422
Joined: 20 September 2009
From: Cyberspace
Member No.: 417
C&C ShockWave Co-Leader



QUOTE
3) Gladiator should be strong vs infantry and aircrafts, but it takes long to kill infantry. Is there something wrong with this unit?

No. The Vulcan Tank is supposed to be for anti-infantry duty, not the Gladiator. I've got a few plans to make the Vulcan Tank more useful, but this remains to be seen whether or not it is put in the game.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-ReLaX
post 24 Nov 2015, 22:30
Post #9



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



With should I mean the description tell you that it is strong vs infanty.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FabulousPug
post 24 Nov 2015, 23:40
Post #10



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 67
Joined: 7 May 2015
Member No.: 11275



We could compare Gladiator to the Gattling tank.. I mean both, in theory, should fill the same roles - primarily AA + anti-infantry.
My opinion is that they are both aprox. same vs aircraft, with Gattlings having a bit more use; Gattling tanks are more fragile, but deal greater damage - Gladiators are much tougher, but not as fast at downing planes. (I might be imagining things, but does a Gladiator deal damage in an area?).
Gladiators cost a bit more that Gattlings, so we assume they would be better in some way.
The problem is that Gattlings shred infantry like nothing while Glads take their time.. but since Vulkans take the anti-inf. job, Gladiators can't...
My suggestion is either to reduce Gladiator's cost, or buff i.. or give it some kind of special ability, passive or active.. (maybe the Glad would be able to switch to a different firing mode, like shooting at once from all his guns, which would give it some sort of burst damage especially when used in groups)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
zourv
post 25 Nov 2015, 0:34
Post #11



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 3 January 2014
Member No.: 10254



Make gladiator AA only unit [cant attack ground targets].
For inf u have vulcan and ironsides wraith tanks can target air units.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zeke
post 25 Nov 2015, 3:31
Post #12


The X General
Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 2117
Joined: 7 June 2009
From: Philippines
Member No.: 73
Uniqueness is Overrated



QUOTE (-ReLaX @ 25 Nov 2015, 5:30) *
With should I mean the description tell you that it is strong vs infanty.


That's because of the limitations of the ZH unit descriptions format. There is only Strong VS and Weak VS, there's no Okay VS tongue.gif

QUOTE (zourv @ 25 Nov 2015, 7:34) *
Make gladiator AA only unit [cant attack ground targets].


IIRC this was suggested before, and it was shot down cause it'll make gladiators useless against the GLA.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-ReLaX
post 25 Nov 2015, 5:56
Post #13



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



I would say simply Anti Air eventho some GLA don't have Air Units.
Ironside Has several other anti air possibilities and also a few to fight against infanty.
IT needs to be tested if He has a chance vs infantry based playstyle.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Damfoos
post 28 Nov 2015, 16:19
Post #14


"Ha! I could do this with my eyes closed!"
Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 271
Joined: 14 October 2014
From: Russia
Member No.: 10686
Russian translator



I'd rather made its guns AA only and added a small machinegun turret for ground attacks (with the same firepower the unit now has vs ground targets). Seriously, the Gladiator looks like it can shred everything on the ground with these four huge rapid-firing cannons, but in fact the damage they deal to infantry and vehicles is pathetic. This badass look and "strong vs infantry" part of description doesn't match the real stats of the unit, confusing new players. If changing the stats is not an option, then a more obvious look may solve this confusion problem, so Gladiator will not look like an anti-infantry support vehicle anymore.

This post has been edited by Damfoos: 28 Nov 2015, 16:23


--------------------


ROTR 1.86 RUS | ShockWave 1.2 RUS | Operation:Firestorm RUS
ROTR VK Fan Group => ROTR.VK <= Группа ROTR ВКонтакте
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-ReLaX
post 28 Nov 2015, 16:56
Post #15



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 November 2015
Member No.: 12368



QUOTE (Damfoos @ 28 Nov 2015, 16:19) *
I'd rather made its guns AA only and added a small machinegun turret for ground attacks (with the same firepower the unit now has vs ground targets). Seriously, the Gladiator looks like it can shred everything on the ground with these four huge rapid-firing cannons, but in fact the damage they deal to infantry and vehicles is pathetic. This badass look and "strong vs infantry" part of description doesn't match the real stats of the unit, confusing new players. If changing the stats is not an option, then a more obvious look may solve this confusion problem, so Gladiator will not look like an anti-infantry support vehicle anymore.


You can't base everything on the look only I would say. No RTS does that really. 1 shot from an Overlord should kill any infantry unit if you know what I mean.
I could tell dozens of things I have in mind for this unit, but I would like to see it nearly as an Avenger. High effective vs air and minimal damage to infantry and really not that much vs tanks. You can display that in the text, that's not an issue.
The vulcan tank is supposed to kill infantry. But one question still is open to me.

Ironside has this 1,4 times more income as all others which needs to be changed to normal basis. Once this is done, what are the option vs heavily infantry-based armies like GLA or infantry general? USA normally counters infantry with flashbangs and after lvl 3 there are pathfinders. All this is not relevant to USA Armor.

ReLaX


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16 October 2018 - 19:28