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some imbalances you might not be aware of
SqUak
post 27 Feb 2016, 2:32
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Bradly, it's the most fucking OP unit in the game, especially vs usa and gla, it just can't be countered.
all Marauders except gla vanilla marauder
Stealth. stealth bikes and stealth scorpions makes it too damn much to be countered with anything really. stealth should never lose if played right in shockwave.
Quads, quads are fine but not when they get scrapped up, when they scrap they kill everything.
china special weapons dragon tank. don't ask, just nerf it
AFG, somekind of drone i forgot it's name. it's fine really the drone itself is not OP but it has a very hard rush that cannot be countered if you're not well prepared for it, so increase it's build time maybe ?
and china tank is the fucking most OP army i have ever played in my life in any MOD. maybe it's just me. not many others agree with my opinion but i have never lost a game when i am china tank. lol i don't think i lost games with many armies haha
and finally, nuke overlord doesn't shoot inf for some reason, which makes nuke sucks tbh

there are tons of more stuff that i forgot about. haven't played for a while and there's no one to play with.
Peace.
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GeneralCamo
post 27 Feb 2016, 4:25
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QUOTE (SqUak @ 26 Feb 2016, 20:32) *
Bradly, it's the most fucking OP unit in the game, especially vs usa and gla, it just can't be countered.
all Marauders except gla vanilla marauder
Stealth. stealth bikes and stealth scorpions makes it too damn much to be countered with anything really. stealth should never lose if played right in shockwave.
Quads, quads are fine but not when they get scrapped up, when they scrap they kill everything.
china special weapons dragon tank. don't ask, just nerf it
AFG, somekind of drone i forgot it's name. it's fine really the drone itself is not OP but it has a very hard rush that cannot be countered if you're not well prepared for it, so increase it's build time maybe ?
and china tank is the fucking most OP army i have ever played in my life in any MOD. maybe it's just me. not many others agree with my opinion but i have never lost a game when i am china tank. lol i don't think i lost games with many armies haha
and finally, nuke overlord doesn't shoot inf for some reason, which makes nuke sucks tbh

there are tons of more stuff that i forgot about. haven't played for a while and there's no one to play with.
Peace.

Bradley: Yeah, it's getting some sort of nerf. Not sure what yet, need to test it out a bit more. Bradley TOW anti-air removal has been juggled for example (Though that might cause other side-effects, hence my reluctance to actually do that).
Marauders: Interesting, most of the feedback I have gotten over the years is that the vGLA Marauder is most OP due to having triple barrels. Going to have a closer look at that.
Stealth: Bikes got a nerf for his faction, as they cost more now.
Quads and their equivalents got a global nerf to their salvage levels, which were discovered to be way too over-the-top.
Acolyte Drone you mean? A price nerf from 350 to 400 might be an option, and has been juggled in the past.
China Tank. Thing is that against certain factions, yes he is definitely OP. But against other factions (Superweapon comes to mind) he is absolutely hopeless. While he did get some buffs, I do know that his main problem lies with GLA factions, and they got some new toys to deal with tank-heavy tactics, so need to check on this closely to see if it actually shakes things up.
Nuke: That bug is thankfully fixed, and nuke is actually decent again.

This post has been edited by Generalcamo: 27 Feb 2016, 4:38
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SqUak
post 27 Feb 2016, 12:18
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bradleys nerf should be either removing it or massively nerfing it's firepower.
and not sure how tank is hopeless vs SWG ! i guess ur referring to EMP pat which could be easily countered with troop crawlers, and if SWG starts with EMP pat it's gonna delay vees and by then a sneaky gat is GG. and a price nerf to acolyte drone of $50 wouldn't help much if u ask me, the best way to nerf it is increasing it's build time.
could we play a couple games please ? i have some true major faction imbalances to show to you. and by playing me i feel i would convince you better than posting here.
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Shiro
post 27 Feb 2016, 16:47
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QUOTE (SqUak @ 27 Feb 2016, 12:18) *
if u ask me

Actually nobody is asking you specifically and your tone isn't exactly the kind of type we would like to see being used on the forum. You can report issues and problems in a more civil tone, right?
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TimeBurner
post 27 Feb 2016, 18:38
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Soraz! Can I into shitposting into this thread? No..? ...ok sad.gif


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Gracia
post 27 Feb 2016, 19:03
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QUOTE
bradleys nerf should be either removing it or massively nerfing it's firepower.
and not sure how tank is hopeless vs SWG ! i guess ur referring to EMP pat which could be easily countered with troop crawlers,


In what way are Bradleys broken? I could argue MDvees are (it's kinda obvious how difficult they are on how to counter those early on). The only thing I think is that they simply might be too good for their price. If you're going to remove it, what would you replace it with that's essentially going to do the same thing?

As for SWG vs Tank. If Kwai has to utilise infantry (something that's not his forte) then something is wrong. His ECMs were nerfed. His Razors were nerfed. His Reapers are meh. Almost everything he has can be dealt with and SWG has decent anti-infantry options. His Troop Crawlers are not worth the cost for the lesser amount of troops it comes with but I proposed an idea which would hopefully see more of this unit being used by him.

QUOTE
china special weapons dragon tank. don't ask, just nerf it


We have to ask, what's the problem? It does what it is intended to and is countered in exactly the ways it should be.

This post has been edited by Jie: 27 Feb 2016, 19:26


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Angel
post 27 Feb 2016, 20:09
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Kwai is the weakest general.
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Rafinius
post 27 Feb 2016, 21:23
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QUOTE (SqUak @ 27 Feb 2016, 3:32) *
all Marauders except gla vanilla marauder


I'm confused as to how Toxic and Stealth Marauder are supposed to be stronger than vGLA Marauder.
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Angel
post 28 Feb 2016, 4:42
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By the way, yesterday I talked with one very strong player, ask him what he could advise to fix in new SW, we have found in test that migs are too weak, 4 migs with black napalm can't destroy even supply. It's silly, Ihope it's allready fixed.
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SqUak
post 28 Feb 2016, 4:52
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QUOTE (Jie @ 27 Feb 2016, 20:03) *
In what way are Bradleys broken? I could argue MDvees are (it's kinda obvious how difficult they are on how to counter those early on). The only thing I think is that they simply might be too good for their price. If you're going to remove it, what would you replace it with that's essentially going to do the same thing?

As for SWG vs Tank. If Kwai has to utilise infantry (something that's not his forte) then something is wrong. His ECMs were nerfed. His Razors were nerfed. His Reapers are meh. Almost everything he has can be dealt with and SWG has decent anti-infantry options. His Troop Crawlers are not worth the cost for the lesser amount of troops it comes with but I proposed an idea which would hopefully see more of this unit being used by him.



We have to ask, what's the problem? It does what it is intended to and is countered in exactly the ways it should be.

bradleys are broken in every single way when combined with that armor ambulance, Gla armies can't counter them no matter what. and it's way worst for china and USA
MDvees on the other hand are not broken, they have been there since vanilla generals and they could be easily countered. in zero hour 1.04 USA factions (except AFG) are considered to be the weakest factions. you guys just don't know how to counter MDvees because you lack experience in zero hour. and don't forget that MDvees has been nerfed in shockwave because ambulances don't repair. MDvees are hard to counter with salvage and toxin though.
and about tank one way to boost it would be to make more redguards in troop crawlers to counter EMP pat. any other buff that comes to my mind would make him too OP to be countered with other armies. and like i said once you see an EMP all you need is a sneaky gat in his base. if you can't get a gat to his base then you don't deserve to win.

too bad i can't provide replays because there is no one to play with. if you still wanna prove me wrong we could always play and see. replays never lie lol

edit : forgot about special wepaons flamer sorry. well it's not broken but vs quads and light vehicles it's way too strong, it's too much for gla sometimes. especially for people who are not familiar with shockwave

This post has been edited by SqUak: 28 Feb 2016, 4:58
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SqUak
post 28 Feb 2016, 4:54
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QUOTE (Angel @ 27 Feb 2016, 21:09) *
Kwai is the weakest general.

huh.gif

QUOTE (Angel @ 28 Feb 2016, 5:42) *
By the way, yesterday I talked with one very strong player, ask him what he could advise to fix in new SW, we have found in test that migs are too weak, 4 migs with black napalm can't destroy even supply. It's silly, Ihope it's allready fixed.

migs are not meant to destroy supply centers. migs with black napalm are used to kill humvees, tunnels, and quads.

This post has been edited by SqUak: 28 Feb 2016, 4:58
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GeneralCamo
post 28 Feb 2016, 5:21
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The issue here is that all I am getting is "Broken, please nerf now." It would be nice to see HOW they are broken, in what ways. Is their firepower too much? Are they hard to kill? Are they spammed too easily? Coming in here and telling us to nerf these units now is not exactly the best way to describe the problem, as it gets nowhere and looks very rude.
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Stubbjax
post 28 Feb 2016, 6:03
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QUOTE (SqUak @ 28 Feb 2016, 14:52) *
in zero hour 1.04 USA factions (except AFG) are considered to be the weakest factions.

I logged in for the first time in 5 years just to say that this is the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read.


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SqUak
post 28 Feb 2016, 6:11
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QUOTE (Generalcamo @ 28 Feb 2016, 6:21) *
The issue here is that all I am getting is "Broken, please nerf now." It would be nice to see HOW they are broken, in what ways. Is their firepower too much? Are they hard to kill? Are they spammed too easily? Coming in here and telling us to nerf these units now is not exactly the best way to describe the problem, as it gets nowhere and looks very rude.

bradlys are hard to kill thanks to armor ambulance which not only repairs bradlys but also clears garrisons, and their firepower with tow missiles is too much, and they are easy to spam due to short build time and armor supreme collecting, and yea they're not slow.
that's why i am asking for games, i don't see how i am being rude. i can't provide replays because there is no one to play with, and you guys won't play me.
one more thing i wanna mention is nuke gats. i like it though i guess it would make nuke suffer even more vs humvees, because there are only 2 ways to counter humvees
1- is gats + infantry, now when your gats explode it's gonna kill your inf which leaves you with the second option
2- fast nuke overlords + ECM and thanks to nuke overlord fix now this mix can be used but it's extremly hard to pull of a win if usa see's it and goes for a fast rush
nuke gats is a great idea, thanks. it helps a lot vs gla. but i think we'll have to wait and see how it goes
please understand that i am humbly trying to help, i am not in anyway trying to be rude. it's the other way around, i am very greatfull to you guys for making shockwave and trying to make it better for us to play, thank you very much.
i have a very good experience in vanilla generals and zero hour and that's why i am here trying to help you guys making this mod that i love a better mod.
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Angel
post 28 Feb 2016, 7:55
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The half of bradley's problem is not in the bradley, it's immortal unit's drones. Honestly, it's one of the most stupid idea in shockwave. Cause they must not be such fragile like in ZH, but they must be normally crushable. This will automaticly do bradleys weaker, also it will decide many other problems associated with these drones. Than it's need to test it, maybe such nerfing will be enough, maybe no
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SqUak
post 28 Feb 2016, 9:38
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QUOTE (Angel @ 28 Feb 2016, 8:55) *
The half of bradley's problem is not in the bradley, it's immortal unit's drones. Honestly, it's one of the most stupid idea in shockwave. Cause they must not be such fragile like in ZH, but they must be normally crushable. This will automaticly do bradleys weaker, also it will decide many other problems associated with these drones. Than it's need to test it, maybe such nerfing will be enough, maybe no


true that, hellfire drones have a pretty decent healthpoints, but no, nerfing drones won't be enough, i don't think anyone here realises how broken bradly's really are.
angel, wanna play some games to send replays to generalcamo ?
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SqUak
post 28 Feb 2016, 10:38
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there you go camo, here is a replay. note that i didn't even bother to micro them.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  bradly.rar ( 29.09K ) Number of downloads: 2
 
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The_Hunter
post 28 Feb 2016, 11:08
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Just going to put it out there btw this update that we're working on is NOT going to be last one. (only in terms of scales this would be the last big update)
There will be more after this which will include tweaks to the game balance and such so there is no need to think that we're going to leave you all with a broken game afterwards.


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Angel
post 28 Feb 2016, 12:34
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One more remark. A few very strong zero hour players noticed that Shockwave, compared with ZH, control units ... how to explain it ... In general, units are often stipid and refuse to obey orders, especially in half the cases the order to go through the attack (A+LMB) is not performed. There are other cases. Unfortunately for something more specific, they can not say, but I trust their feelings and experiences, and I hope that the Hunter and the entire team of testers will understand what specifically is wrong in units and fix it.
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GeneralCamo
post 28 Feb 2016, 13:28
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QUOTE (The_Hunter @ 28 Feb 2016, 5:08) *
Just going to put it out there btw this update that we're working on is NOT going to be last one. (only in terms of scales this would be the last big update)
There will be more after this which will include tweaks to the game balance and such so there is no need to think that we're going to leave you all with a broken game afterwards.

Very much this. There will be more details in the future regarding this. Just note that my title of "Project Leader" is not a cosmetic thing.
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Rafinius
post 28 Feb 2016, 16:12
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QUOTE (SqUak @ 28 Feb 2016, 5:52) *
especially for people who are not familiar with shockwave

Not to be mean but of course units will seem over/underpowered to players not familiar with a particular strategy game who don't know how to smartly counter what with what. I'm pretty sure Knights would seem underpowered to people completely new to Chess because they move less far than Rooks and Bishops.

QUOTE (Angel @ 28 Feb 2016, 13:34) *
A few very strong zero hour players noticed that

What does that even mean? Are they competitive players that got some high ranking? Did they have a 70%+ win rate online back in the day? I think that just throwing that term in there is a tad bit subjective. When I was young I thought my high school friends were very strong players because they beat me all the time.
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GeneralCamo
post 29 Feb 2016, 16:37
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QUOTE (SqUak @ 27 Feb 2016, 22:52) *
MDvees are hard to counter with salvage and toxin though.

This is one of the things addressed with Salvage. The Scarab Tank's smoke grenades are actually useful now (they no longer have a delay), and they ruin attempts to kite, forcing them to get close where they can be mauled by Scarabs and/or Quads. As for Toxin, his grenadiers were buffed, which may make them a bit harder to counter... or failing that, just force a base race which the MDvee would find difficult to win vs. Toxin Grenadiers.
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Zion
post 1 Mar 2016, 3:15
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Squaks not rude at all, i dont even know where you got "rude tone" from people..
His points as mostly valid, and I think he should def test more matchups...

as far as your replay squak.. I agree those bradleys shred through everything pretty fast.. expecially inf.. and those hellfire drones make them extremely affective. but dude.. a 3v1 vs a bunch of noobs.. comon. u can do better than that.. atleast play with your bud micro... or I would like to play with you as well.. Im probably not as experienced as you, but I would like to play some time..

What timezone do you play?
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SqUak
post 2 Mar 2016, 6:33
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QUOTE (Zion @ 1 Mar 2016, 4:15) *
Squaks not rude at all, i dont even know where you got "rude tone" from people..
His points as mostly valid, and I think he should def test more matchups...

as far as your replay squak.. I agree those bradleys shred through everything pretty fast.. expecially inf.. and those hellfire drones make them extremely affective. but dude.. a 3v1 vs a bunch of noobs.. comon. u can do better than that.. atleast play with your bud micro... or I would like to play with you as well.. Im probably not as experienced as you, but I would like to play some time..

What timezone do you play?

i would like to join the testing team but i don't think they would allow that, and they've got enough dudes in the testing team already.

there are no decent players around, micro keeps dodging and whining bout imbalances. he's almost never online when i am btw. and he's the only player i know who would make it to late game vs me in shockwave. others are too noobs for 1v1's so i thought a 1v3 using bradleys would make a point.
and i would really like to play a couple games vs you. but take it easy on me, i'm too rusty and haven't played a 1v1 vs a decent player for months.
here is my gameranger ID : 6238687
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Marakar
post 2 Mar 2016, 16:08
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I'd also be up for playing some shockwave games with you gentlemen if thats alright.

GR ID: 7019693

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