Community Strategy Guide Options

[ComradeCrimson]

Alright, the gist of this thread is to be a sort of help thread for players, both new and old, to post questions on strategy in the game and ways to counter different units, strategic builds and tactics people use in game and to discuss overall tactics and strategy in game.

Rules for this thread are as follows.

1. There is to be no complaining over balance concerns and other player's behaviour or tactics in this thread. This is a place for discussing counters to problems that can be feasibly done ingame, not a place for complaining about why this or that unit or strategy is overpowered. If there legitimately is something overpowered or underpowered such problems will have been already found by testers and be attended to by developers- talking about it here is redundant.

2. No passive aggressive behaviour towards other people in this thread; lets avoid the salt. Keep it clean, straight forward. This isn't the place to moan about who skinned your backside with what you deem is some cheap tactic; or some other nonsense. If you think someone's strategy is dumb, look at rule 3.


3. Don't demean someone's suggestion or strategy with outright arrogance or hostility. Criticizing them is fine; even if its somewhat harsh- but explain your points fairly if you find a suggestion is not helpful to the person who poised the question, and offer an alternative in its stead. And for those receiving criticism, don't have thin skin and be ready to accept it. Sometimes the truth hurts, even if the critics are trying to be helpful and diplomatic.

4. Whilst not completely mandatory, it is encouraged to use replays and other sources when citing proof of a strategy's validity; as it will also demonstrate how a player can feasibly perform said strategy and perhaps counter it.

5. A bit of joking is all fine in this thread. Humour is what releases tension; among other things that shall not be proclaimed here. But know when to stop, if you cause a fuss don't carry on the subject. You don't need to have the last word for a pointless argument or flustering. If I personally see such an issue I will tell you to move on and such an order is to be obeyed.

6. This thread constitutes both competitive pvp gameplay as well as comp stomps. Sometimes people want to hear ways to beat the AI, maybe they are just having casual fun with friends and that one AI is bugging them. Or maybe they are challenging themselves and fighting 7 brutals at once all teamed up against them on 10k and pulling a me basically; and they'd like to hear potential strategies on how to not die and actually win. Or maybe people are getting their arse kicked in multiplayer, and they want some tips on how to get better and fight competently against the cackling hyenas of the playerbase.

7. End every post with Cthulu fhtgan or bad stuff will happen.


I'll start us off.

How to beat 4 brutals teamed up versus you in less than 1 hour at 10k, with no cheats. Any faction for the player and enemy brutals.

Inb4



This post has been edited by ComradeCrimson: 25 May 2016, 18:52

[Storm]

Can beat upto 5 brutals teamed up versus me in less than 1 hour at 10k, with no cheats, provided there are only 2 entrances (maximum) to my base. Be it ZH or Shockwave or ROTR.

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Can we as a community work to find an ECA playstyle that doesn't 100% rely on shitloads of defence so its actually fun to play against?

Because thats what ECA needs right now, and no matter how hard i try even with double or triple war factory, that shit just doesn't work

[Mizo]

General Tips for ECA :

1 / Don't build Skyshields early-game , you can invest with the same cost in felins and using tigers as your primary AA defense until you get a good steady cash flow.
2/ Infantry spam should be done in a way that they stay behind your tanks and armoured units. ECA has a good Infantry roster that can dish out DPS if kept alive, which with the helps of medics , is fairly consistent, but taking more percutions in positioning helps.
3/ Digouts and Fortifications can be shot over by your defenses, you can use them as a first wall, to prevent the enemy from having direct line of fire against your rear gun turrents, and it will act as a sheild. Gun turrents should always be in the back behind any structure ect..
4/ Place atleast2 gaurd towers near both your Region Command and Solar reactor at one point of the game. Place the Solar Reactor in a way that it makes it sort of like a secondary super bunker aside from your Region command. This does mean that you have to give it bunkers and garrison infantry in both the bunkers and the Region Command.
5/ Don't start spamming Mortar pits until you get your third howetzer up.
6/ Spam wotans and keep them on the move where they are needed. Theyre not stationary Tier 2 AA.

[TimeBurner]

Can we as a community work to find an ECA playstyle that doesn't 100% rely on shitloads of defence so its actually fun to play against?

Because thats what ECA needs right now, and no matter how hard i try even with double or triple war factory, that shit just doesn't work

Oh poor summer child... Topols

[ComradeCrimson]

Can beat upto 5 brutals teamed up versus me in less than 1 hour at 10k, with no cheats, provided there are only 2 entrances (maximum) to my base. Be it ZH or Shockwave or ROTR.

Yeah, ok, cool. Explain the strategy on how you do it. I'm not asking for my sake, im asking for the sake of people who've asked me in the past. Whats your method? ZH and Shockwave AI is significantly weaker than ROTR. ROTR AI people have trouble with.

Explain your process.

For me, generally I find GLA to be the best for large scale comp stomps- I've done one where it was 7 versus one on my Crimson Star Assault map

(which is like 7 Star assault except there is a hill in the middle with the 8th spot/player and there is two wide entrances on the hill to the left and right, enough space for like two decent sized china blobs to fit through, each with 1 simple bunker on either side that can be garrison cleared, a single oil derrick with a 1 man outhouse near it and a single large supply yard.)

because the GLA has bounties and therefore can outproduce even 7 other opponents all teamed up; by basically using a few static defenses and then using mobile units for defense like recyclers, mercenaries, grads and others to keep the enemy at bay and get more and more cash, and pushing with arty.

Can we as a community work to find an ECA playstyle that doesn't 100% rely on shitloads of defence so its actually fun to play against?

Because thats what ECA needs right now, and no matter how hard i try even with double or triple war factory, that shit just doesn't work

As for a suggestion for you Riker- ECA infantry is rather powerful. Have you considered war factory with double barracks? Or even field outpost with double barracks? Spam Felin riflemen, panzerfausts and a medic, rush and rely on a mobile Pandur force with supporting Gepards when you move up in tier. Have the odd few defenses to prevent rushes. Use dogs to maximum potential, cap resources on the map with engineers; fortify the map with dozers whilst you harass with infantry, aim for their supplies. FAct is you will still want to fortify a bit on key positions but you can be more aggressive.

The ECA in my eyes can be played like a more expensive, slower Russia, in that its units actually do have some punch, and its infantry is rather durable provided you give them proper supports. Take out toxin tractors, dragon tanks, quads and related out with your odd vehicles/use lynxes to absorb fire, use infantry to ruin the enemy. I've seen lynx rushes do pretty well against the GLA and can imagine they can do well against America provided you give proper supports and Felins+upgrades and gepard tanks, especially with forward dugouts can do decently against the enemy. Mind though, this is not counting in Knjaz's patch so that may vary the results. Vanguards and other counters the USA has like sentry drones and humvees might prove problematic, blackhawks as well- why you bring a few gepards along with many Felin riflemen. Use lynxes to close the distance between firebases.

As for Russia, it'd be a bit more difficult as they can fight back with their own infantry a lot easier as infantry massing is a very viable strat with them- consider rushing forward into enemy lines with gepards whilst your infantry, panzerfausts mostly, target their war factories and eco and spam the ever loving mother out of dogs.

China will probably be also a bit difficult what with gattlings and battlemasters, but again- only one way to test it out.

Another crazy strat I thought of too- what if you used mole minelayers more offensively and more en masse? Plant mines all over the map, pair with gepards. If enemy comes forward, retreat back and let them run over the mines, maybe have the odd tiger or harrier support; and later on Jagd Mammuts and Wotans. Use dogs for line of sight or the new bloodhounds for line of sight and raiding capabilities.

This post has been edited by ComradeCrimson: 25 May 2016, 6:04

[Marakar]

Can we as a community work to find an ECA playstyle that doesn't 100% rely on shitloads of defence so its actually fun to play against?

Because thats what ECA needs right now, and no matter how hard i try even with double or triple war factory, that shit just doesn't work

There are a couple of ways to play ECA while trying to minimize on defenses usage. Note that these strategies shouldn't be used every game but rather mixed in every couple of games.



1). Double Barracks on a Flank/Front of Base. This basically involves a 3rd Dozer being made in order to be sent forward and once at its destination, immediately build 2 barracks back-to-back. This strategy forces the opponent to defend from ECA early on, and depending on what faction you are attacking you will be either using a couple of panzerfausts + felins or a load of felins with few panzerfausts. The former applies to Russia, USA and China whilst the latter can be applied to ECA (to take down the cheetah with armory expansions) and GLA (lack of armor). If your dozer is alive, you can save having to spend money money on medics by spamming forward medical outposts near targets you will attack, as the radius of the outpost is surprisingly large and will be able to heal your infantry on the ground. If you are able to keep your opponent occupied for long enough, go for tech structures and a 3rd/4th supply while you can in order to snowball.

2). "Aggressive" Warhounds. One of the most underrated units in the ECA T0 arsenal would honestly have to be the warhounds. Many people use them purely for their defensive heal, but their firepower is nothing to scoff at and can actually be very useful for early zone denial. Because this tactic relies on a lack of Aircraft, using this against an Airfield opening USA would never work but you would need to scout ahead of time in the case of USA whether they have an Airfield or Warfactory opening. Anyways, basically you make two warhounds moving forward but having space from each other to where they can fire at each other's deadzones. This is really useful for area denial, and even if the enemy moves around one to where the other can't attack, simply dig out and crawl forward to defend the other warhound. While you can, C4 in the sides of the Warhound as a sort of way to bait the enemy into explosives as they don't want to directly engage warhounds at t0 in most cases. If you are able to control an area of the map with strong map prescence, begin securing tech structures/supplies in that area and slowly base crawl with your warhounds (don't forget to C4 strategical locaitons when you can!) Eventually, your opponent will have to react to the warhounds, in which it provides even more time for you to snowball them by teching up, making high tier units and even possibly going into Vehicle Assembly. Thats pretty much the strategy, and theres a couple of things you can even do such as purchasing nerve gas to move artillary units towards the Warhound's range, Field Promotion to make them incredibly bulky and deal even more damage or simply just stick with using the warhounds and outmicroing your opponent.

I've used these strategies in occasion even in serious games, so it does work well as long as you don't use them every single game.


EDIT: Cthulu fhtgan

This post has been edited by Marakar: 25 May 2016, 6:49

[TimeBurner]

Ok,seriously now.

Since I havent played for ages. I dont know what changes happened. Can someone tell me what are the metas used by Russian players now?

[Marakar]

Ok,seriously now.

Since I havent played for ages. I dont know what changes happened. Can someone tell me what are the metas used by Russian players now?

Primarily, its either holding on to the lategame and going ecospam to steam roll, tech rushing to tier2 to get an early boris or hind and then just tier1 large assault with MTPs, Buratinos, Kodiaks, Tunguskas, etc. Recovery is still meta as well.

This post has been edited by Marakar: 25 May 2016, 7:20

[Arc]

USA Defense composition. What do you do in a defence line?
Mainly talking about comp-stomping but PVP knowledge is appreciated too.

[Marakar]

Firebases: Always place behind structures and never place them in exposed areas. Fireabases are able to shoot above buildings and have the ability to become an extremely easy way to wall off infantry if loaded up with vanguards, and with missile defenders it becomes a very potent anti-vehicle defense.

Protectors: Same idea, place the defenses behind buildings. One idea you can do in Compstomps is place a Command Center to block off a flank with firebases behind it. The command center serves as a wall and meatshield for your defenses, or in PvP, you can place a firebase near your warfactory/supply/barracks/cc and make sure there is a building in front of it to serve as a way to hold the line.

You also have the bombardment cannon from the strategy center, but if you plan on using it as a defense, make sure to rotate it towards the direction of the enemy base for maximum effectiveness as a defense.

Cyclops: Best defense you want to be using against a GLA to deflect the missiles and against aircraft-heavy factions to kill off their gunships and jets. Again, placing behind buildings is the best way to use them (common theme among USA defenses). You want to be having a couple of these in your base in the lategame to counter heavy airstrikes, something USA somewhat struggles with at times. Their range is quite good so you don't need to place these too near the main frontlines.

This post has been edited by Marakar: 25 May 2016, 8:38

[X1Destroy]

USA Defense composition. What do you do in a defence line?
Mainly talking about comp-stomping but PVP knowledge is appreciated too.

I use fire base+protectors spam and 6 cyclops near a strategy center with bombardment cannon. Not a damn thing can get through except artillery spam.

If I see Sentinels, termite and AT drones ambushes screw them up badly.

However, raptors are still the best for defense cause they can get past grumbles and destroy them. Then I can use comanches to finish off everything on the ground.

[Mizo]

USA Defense composition. What do you do in a defence line?
Mainly talking about comp-stomping but PVP knowledge is appreciated too.

If you're planning to go Defensive oriented USA, then you have to place your base structures in a way that they act as a wall. The most important thing you need to defend at first are your ospreys so this is how the Format should be :


$$$

SS FF (AF/Barracks/Tier1)
Barracks

FF = Firebase SS = SupplyCecnter $= Supply dock

So basically you wall off your firebase completely, in a way that the supplies act as an additional wall side as well. You place your buildings in the form of oxes around your firebases alongside 4 Missile defenders inside, with one of them having lazer lock.
All other defenses should be placed in similar notion , not that elaborate, but in a way that they can cover each other's deadzone and be walled off by a building as well.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 25 May 2016, 13:00

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

USA Defense composition. What do you do in a defence line?
Mainly talking about comp-stomping but PVP knowledge is appreciated too.

the basics of USA defence is just hide things up close and tight behind your buildings so they can pew pew over them

[Storm]

Yeah, ok, cool. Explain the strategy on how you do it. I'm not asking for my sake, im asking for the sake of people who've asked me in the past. Whats your method? ZH and Shockwave AI is significantly weaker than ROTR. ROTR AI people have trouble with.

First, thank you for reading my statement and responding to it.

If you are playing against General Leang (China Superweapons) in Shockwave, you wouldn't have said this She is most brutal and the hammercannons with a super long range artillery it deploys, these make you eat dirt and you see yourself on the verge of losing unless you are using some kind of a cheat. Also the armor & savage generals are brutal enough and give you a very tough time in shockwave. Do not deny ROTR are not weaker but Shockwave have more or less the same kind of AI as ROTR. My two cents.

Explain your process.

For me, generally I find GLA to be the best for large scale comp stomps- I've done one where it was 7 versus one on my Crimson Star Assault map

(which is like 7 Star assault except there is a hill in the middle with the 8th spot/player and there is two wide entrances on the hill to the left and right, enough space for like two decent sized china blobs to fit through, each with 1 simple bunker on either side that can be garrison cleared, a single oil derrick with a 1 man outhouse near it and a single large supply yard.)

because the GLA has bounties and therefore can outproduce even 7 other opponents all teamed up; by basically using a few static defenses and then using mobile units for defense like recyclers, mercenaries, grads and others to keep the enemy at bay and get more and more cash, and pushing with arty.

Well there is nothing in particular to explain. I build my defenses good (really good!) on those entrances to my base, be it whichever general I'm playing. And during the build up, I do not engage into offense in either ways. Yes, I build units from the barracks and the war factory but I ensure that these do not leave my base and help me in defending the latter until my base defense is fully fortified and ready to engage to any incoming threats. In other words, I would rather avoid any offense during this time. Also, I make sure that I build my superweapons (multiple) faster than the AI builds them and in that manner, I get the time to counter the AI's superweapon timers. Once my defense line is up and fortified and with a constant cash flow, I start spamming of my offnesive units generally with the superhero unit in the front. Analysing the map is very important and it is in your judgement how the AI is going to use the map. Analyse the map, see and determine the weaker points and frequent routes of the AI and use them to my advantage. The only disadvantage for me lies when my game lags and that is the time when I feel the heat of losing to AI as an opponent on large skirmish maps.

I've also teamed up with 1 AI on maps like Stomp Arena & Company town and won against the brutal teams very successully following the above process in ROTR. Maps like "Deserted" are the ones where I'm alone against all the other 7 AIs. However, I ensure that those 7 are not teamed up. I split those 7 opponents in two teams and only then I can beat them pretty easily. Haven't tried out playing against all the 7 teamed up yet!

[Easy]

Hopper Tank vs. Battlemaster Tank: Which one would be better for which situation?

I usually try to reach a critical unit mass and then rush into the offensive with tanks, Gattlings, a few Dragons if possible, the couple of ECM and Crawlers with only Tier 1 tech. In the midst of this, I go to Tier 2 if I can while producing enough backup units as fall back measures should my first punch fails. The first blow is usually just to box in an opponent, punish him for that second supply source and whatnot. I'm wondering which tank is better for which situation/opposing faction.



Offensive Mole Minelayers vs GLA Tunnel Networks. Win win. SAGE help you if you have units in there.


Oh, and that vs Brutal AIs (only up to 3 teamed up for me, my laptop can't handle more than 4 players on a map), ECA vehicle dugouts and fortifications. 10k starting money. Survive the first 3-5 minutes of hell. As long there are only two-three choke points. Don't limit the superweapons, you'll need it. In my experience, they only build one anyway. The AI usually targets your defenses with GPs and superweapons. A dug-in vehicle survives that. Watch them rush you with units and give you free GP points. Get the bulldog turret. Its your backup turret. Don't forget to hide it after using it since they rarely bring stealth detectors. Their artillery are also naked to air units.

Watch out for Russia's Schmel if your Fortification is not yet fortified (GP+Tier 1). Watch out for Infernos though they are not your most dangerous opponent. And FFS watch out for those *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* Mole *bleep* *bleep* Minelayers. *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*. The ECA AI likes to use them. And they *bleep* you up. They clear your minefields. They launch mole bombs that move so slowly towards your bunker/firebase/fortification (this is their main priority) and trust me it'll eat you watching them move inch by inch. Those mole bombs disrespects the term fortified. They will blow your units out and SAGE helps you if two mole bombs are coming. The first blows your infantry out. The second blows them to hell.

Your easiest opponent is the GLA AI. Send Jaeger and reset every Scud Storms to hell. USA and China, you can handle. Send Jaeger to the powerplants and bid goodbye to the only stealth detector the USA AI uses. Keep at the powerplants (this is tricky since as soon as the power's back, they will have scout drones all around). Watch out for China's mines. They don't usually mine the silos though. Oh and they like to spam Crawlers which does absolutely nothing, just waiting to die. vRussia... conscripts and the early Schmels and then the Backfires... ECAmirror, keep the enemy Solar Reactor down. Its the Achilles heel.

Don't die to superweapons.

Luck

Cthulu fhtgan

This post has been edited by Easy: 25 May 2016, 15:18

[Storm]

USA Defense composition. What do you do in a defence line?
Mainly talking about comp-stomping but PVP knowledge is appreciated too.

Well, firebases are quite strong if placed strategically in your base. Everyone follows their own perspective to defend and I do for mine. Personally, I disagree with Marakar on his view that you never place them in exposed areas. If you place two firebases (and filling them with missile defenders & snipers) within a short distance from each other, it is next to impossible for the AI ground units to penetrate it. Also bombardment strategy cannons are useless in front of moving ground targets.


I would place those firebases around my base with 1 protector next to it and fill those firebases with 3 missile defenders and 1 sniper. The snipers take out the infantry and the missile defenders deal with the incoming flow of tanks or other vehicles. For the anti-air support, I ensure to build atleast 1 Cyclops per 1 firebase. Cyclops is awesome and these take out helicopters like Han Gunships in just one shot and the range is also awesome, provided you have selected the "Search & Destroy" strategy for your base. I always select this strategy when the game starts and later on when your defense is up and fortified to the max, you can select the either of the other two strategies.

For more defense, if the AI are in large numbers, I deploy a couple of commanches and vipers and make them guard the firebases around my base. That adds to my defense line up and helps me concentrate more on working towards the constant cash flow for my base. Also for more protection, as Mizo pointed out and you can build additional firebases to be walled off with a building. Personally, I would not do that because when you do the above for your base, that is really not needed!

As for the AI's superweapons, I build atleast 6 stealth fighters (because chances are you would lose two while they are sent into the enemy base) and send them to take out the weapon (these are stealth permanently) along with an A10 strike or Spectre. It works beautifully.

[Easy]

Well, firebases are quite strong if placed strategically in your base. Everyone follows their own perspective to defend and I do for mine. Personally, I disagree with Marakar on his view that you never place them in exposed areas. If you place two firebases (and filling them with missile defenders & snipers) within a short distance from each other, it is next to impossible for the AI ground units to penetrate it. Also bombardment strategy cannons are useless in front of moving ground targets.


I would place those firebases around my base with 1 protector next to it and fill those firebases with 3 missile defenders and 1 sniper. The snipers take out the infantry and the missile defenders deal with the incoming flow of tanks or other vehicles. For the anti-air support, I ensure to build atleast 1 Cyclops per 1 firebase. Cyclops is awesome and these take out helicopters like Han Gunships in just one shot and the range is also awesome, provided you have selected the "Search & Destroy" strategy for your base. I always select this strategy when the game starts and later on when your defense is up and fortified to the max, you can select the either of the other two strategies.

For more defense, if the AI are in large numbers, I deploy a couple of commanches and vipers and make them guard the firebases around my base. That adds to my defense line up and helps me concentrate more on working towards the constant cash flow for my base. Also for more protection, as Mizo pointed out and you can build additional firebases to be walled off with a building. Personally, I would not do that because when you do the above for your base, that is really not needed!

As for the AI's superweapons, I build atleast 6 stealth fighters (because chances are you would lose two while they are sent into the enemy base) and send them to take out the weapon (these are stealth permanently) along with an A10 strike or Spectre. It works beautifully.

Fighting an AI is different from fighting a person. When faced with two manned firebases side by side with a mule drone and PDL repair drones or Avengers, a person's first thought is how to get around that while an AI's first thought is how to get *bleep* by that.

Also try putting a Vanguard instead of a Pathfinder. It fires slug rounds that damages multiple units (good vs infantry, light vehicles). An ungarrisoned Pathfinder can be used within the base to keep you safe against infantry, especially heroes but against the AI, nah.

Cyclops drain too much power. Your 2nd eco needs power and takes up space. You could end up having power issues. Against the AI, you could risk it though.

A Hunter Killer drone can stealth and does the job of Nighthawks at half the cost. They also auto-repair and they are fun to handle. Watch them fly

[ComradeCrimson]

2 Cthulu Fhtagn's... right; have a baby Cthulu so far folks for the good posting; this is turning out rather productive.




To answer some of the questions brought in myself as well-


1. To Arc;

Comp Stomping- you can either follow the other's advice or, what I do, keep your buildings somewhat compact, use barracks as a wall and make sure the firebase is diagonally pointing at the enemy so 3 firebase slots face the enemy forces. Have it where you got a barracks and maybe another structure like war factory or whatever else flanking either side diagonally, protecting something important like power, supplies, etc, text map wise it should look like this:



....B.......Supply Center...........G
.....A....................................N
.......R................................I
.........R............................D
...........A........................L
............C.....................I
...............K......Fire.....U
.................S...Base..B

Inspired a bit off of Star Shaped Gunpowder forts like this:





Note the points of these forts- a US base designed like this with firebases to maximize garrisoned firepower whilst being protected on the flanks is pretty optimal for pvp combat. Now obviously trying to make a picture perfect fort that exactly matches these is a waste of time, but there was a reason they made forts like this and it was because of fire projection, you could fire at several different directions while also being quite defensive and hard to breach.


Have Javelin teams and other static defenses behind as the others have said. I also cannot iterate enough that the American's real true strength with defense, or anything is its units. Use raptors, helicopters and other units- especially the odd drone or too and microwave tanks to compliment your defenses. Javelin teams, positioned behind buildings and partnered with medics and mule drones can help save lives.

As for PvP- While this strategy can work, the safer bet is to put your firebase between your supplies and command center, and get fast air, especially if fighting GLA. A blackhawk typically, land the infantry. You might be thinking: But wait what if the enemy gets Quads? Fear not, a full squad from a Blackhawk drop can kill 2 Quads and have ussually 4-5 troopers left over provided you micro your blackhawk a little bit. And against technical rushes, they can shut them down pretty fast too.

Guardian drones dug in when the enemy arrives with repair drones can help very good against China and even Russia, whilst all the other factions can be approached with either some early humvees or air.

Later on, having 1-2 cyclops is never a bad thing. Treat them like expensive air snipers, you will still want lots of avengers in your base for the practical reason of killing aircraft as well as helping your defensive lines deflect missiles.

When the enemy gets artillery, snipe them with either tomahawks or raptors; or even scurrying AT drones can do the job. These last few tips can be applied to PvE/Comp Stomps as well.

2. To Easy;

To answer this, let us first review each respective tanks.

Pros of the hopper tank:

Very spammable.

Cheap.

Very fast.

Good line of sight/good scouts with binoculars

Not a big deal if you lose one.

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS

Cons:

Weak

Path finding is not your friend

Longer build time/arrival on the field than the 1 battlemaster.

Pros of the Battlemaster:

Tougher than hopper

Better damage than Hopper

Still rather affordable

Cons:

Not as spammable

Not as fast as Hopper

Not as good a scout

So overall we have a pretty good idea of these two tanks already by looking at their basic uses and stats.

To me, the answer of this question depends on enemy unit composition and so forth. Russia is likely going to field very tough tanks.

Where hopper tanks can work well in this regard, is if you use them for hitting your opponents eco fast. Otherwise the combo of Russian infantry and tanks will likely ruin Hoppers, and battlemasters for that effect.

So if you want a raider unit against Russians- Hopper tanks are your friends.

If you're doing midgame engagements the Battlemaster is more useful, but you should be relying on inferno cannons, ecms and other things to support. And always, always, always bring a Troop Crawler. China isn't just mindless spam, contrary to what most people believe. Its actually all about area of effect support bonuses, and bolstering your units with the effects of ECM, propaganda and utilizing reaction provoking units like Inferno cannons to outpace the enemy with your far more supported army.

Against GLA, Hopper tanks are expendable and rather good for early rushes against Dushkas, running over workers and fighting the GLA and overwhelming them. And worst comes to worst, if they get hijacked or demotrapped- you aren't losing that much. So they are rather economical for this, while a Battlemaster loss, whilst not totally crippling, is a bit more potent than losing like 1 or so Hopper tank. Overall the use of troop crawlers in conjunction is a must, as well as gattling and dragon tanks. Red Guard supports will do you well too here, provided you let your tanks soak damage for them.

As for the United States- Hopper tanks tend to falter rather hard. They die easily, can be picked off by aircraft and drones rather easily and are not worth the extra build costs. Going with inferno cannons supported by ECM's or, earlier on, a lot of gattlings is a far safer route.

A Hopper rush simply for having a buffer for gattlings may work, but battlemasters will pack more punch and in my opinion are far better, because they can tank hits far better and hurt the US vehicles more. By the time it reaches midgame you should already be relying more on infernos and ecm's to kill any American ground forces, and utilizing your own infantry to deal with enemy drones. Minigunner teams in conjunction with other infantry can help protect your artillery, have the odd battlemaster for fighting.

Against the ECA, you will almost always want Battlemasters. Not only are they more durable, they will kill ECA units much faster. Hopper tanks are not a smart move against the ECA as even the simplest of defenses like fortifications can kill them fairly fast and inflict more damage than is worthwhile, and the Cheetah helicopter can take down Hopper tanks fairly fast. Use battlemasters in this case.

And for rival China against China- this is a battle of production. It really depends on your opponent's style here but I've found equal success in both tanks. It just comes down to personal preference really at that point.

This post has been edited by ComradeCrimson: 25 May 2016, 19:26

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Allright I got another,
When do people effectively integrate flashbangs into their build orders?
I just ignore them at this point because of the cash investment early game sets you back pretty far, and beyond that theres not really much point as... you know... tanks

[ZunZero97]

Firebases: Always place behind structures and never place them in exposed areas. Fireabases are able to shoot above buildings and have the ability to become an extremely easy way to wall off infantry if loaded up with vanguards, and with missile defenders it becomes a very potent anti-vehicle defense.

Protectors: Same idea, place the defenses behind buildings. One idea you can do in Compstomps is place a Command Center to block off a flank with firebases behind it. The command center serves as a wall and meatshield for your defenses, or in PvP, you can place a firebase near your warfactory/supply/barracks/cc and make sure there is a building in front of it to serve as a way to hold the line.

You also have the bombardment cannon from the strategy center, but if you plan on using it as a defense, make sure to rotate it towards the direction of the enemy base for maximum effectiveness as a defense.

Cyclops: Best defense you want to be using against a GLA to deflect the missiles and against aircraft-heavy factions to kill off their gunships and jets. Again, placing behind buildings is the best way to use them (common theme among USA defenses). You want to be having a couple of these in your base in the lategame to counter heavy airstrikes, something USA somewhat struggles with at times. Their range is quite good so you don't need to place these too near the main frontlines.

Cyclops sometimes have a bug when intercepting rockets and/or missiles.

[Arc]

What do you mean? I don't understand what you are trying to say here: just a "bug".

[Marakar]

Allright I got another,
When do people effectively integrate flashbangs into their build orders?
I just ignore them at this point because of the cash investment early game sets you back pretty far, and beyond that theres not really much point as... you know... tanks

I've usually tried to Integrate Flashbangs either if

(Im a Warfactory Build Order): When i'm starting t1 and my warfactory is queued up already.

(Im an Airfield Build Order): When my airfield is full and queued up // I'm starting t1.

Usually I would get flashbangs at around t1 because they can't recover the CIA without the Detention Camp currently in 1.86.

[ZunZero97]

What do you mean? I don't understand what you are trying to say here: just a "bug".

I mean they are not intercept well the missiles.

[Rohan]

How to make a good Vehicle build work as USA ?