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Future of the f-22, Which is the most/least probable?
Jet02
post 17 Jan 2017, 14:13
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1. The f-22 is pushed back into production
2. The usaf opts for 1), but due to budgetary problems, they decide to stick with a low cost, mass-producible flying brick in the likeness of an f-22 a la ROTR(inb4 rotr usaf never designed a low cost, mass-producible flying brick in the likeness of an f-22)
3. Contrary to 2), the usaf decides to deploy a legendary variant of the f-22 (imagine king raptors, but with stealth) with updated avionics, better engines, thel(?), stealth external weapon pods(?),etc. etc.
4. (Just to make this qualify as a LBin topic, donT take seriously) half life 3 is released before the end of the decade
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(USA)Bruce
post 17 Jan 2017, 15:13
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5-Nothing happens
3- possible due to its exclusivity for the USAF only
4-Tommarow gabe newell has an AMA at 3pm pasific time


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Jet02
post 18 Jan 2017, 15:39
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 17 Jan 2017, 22:13) *
5-Nothing happens
3- possible due to its exclusivity for the USAF only
4-Tommarow gabe newell has an AMA at 3pm pasific time


I actually hope 3 happens.
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Star_Abraham
post 25 Jan 2017, 19:02
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Nothing much will happen, just as Bruce says, because of it's exclusivity with the Air Force.

It's a platform meant to kill 4th generation aircraft, and if the f-15's history says anything, it might be unessesary to build more.

But as a platform meant to kill older airplanes, you're more likely to see a larger variant of the F-35 as the raptor replacement or "6th generation" aircraft.


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Jet02
post 28 Mar 2017, 11:57
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Now that the trump's in charge and he's not realpy a fan of wido... cough cough i mean JSFs.... is there a chance?

Iirc the raptor actually stands a better chance against contemporary designs like the su-35/pak-fa than the jsf

This post has been edited by Jet02: 28 Mar 2017, 12:09
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(USA)Bruce
post 28 Mar 2017, 13:18
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QUOTE (Jet02 @ 28 Mar 2017, 13:57) *
Now that the trump's in charge and he's not realpy a fan of wido... cough cough i mean JSFs.... is there a chance?

Iirc the raptor actually stands a better chance against contemporary designs like the su-35/pak-fa than the jsf


The JSF is bigger then trump, Its a statecross, Internationally made fighter plane that makes jobs.Its politiclly Immortal.

Also the raptor is made for air superiorty, Its pretty bad at pretty much anything else, hence the JSF fills in the other roles


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Jet02
post 28 Mar 2017, 14:20
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 28 Mar 2017, 20:18) *
The JSF is bigger then trump, Its a statecross, Internationally made fighter plane that makes jobs.Its politiclly Immortal.

Also the raptor is made for air superiorty, Its pretty bad at pretty much anything else, hence the JSF fills in the other roles


1. Military industrial complex ffs....

2. Why don't they develop both projects at once, and field them in reasonable numbers? They have the budget. How hard will it be to restart raptor production if they do? Would doing so pay off? Where is the study the USAF was supposed to submit before January? Would a multirole,aa focused variant like the pak-fa work? Is having a fleet comprising mostly of JSFs even a good idea? Don't they still need raptors to deal with aircraft of equal status?

This question is getting too serious to belong in the loony bin move to general chat pls

This post has been edited by Jet02: 28 Mar 2017, 14:24
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__CrUsHeR
post 28 Mar 2017, 15:16
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In military industry, just like any other industry or market, a product does not necessarily have to be better than a competitor, it is enough large investments and a business network, mainly focused on markting for a particular product to sell. With JSF it's no different...

Even if the fighter is not actually what was promised, it still fulfilled its main mission: It sold an idea for investors and it will generate profits in the long term.


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(USA)Bruce
post 28 Mar 2017, 18:41
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QUOTE (Jet02 @ 28 Mar 2017, 16:20) *
1. Military industrial complex ffs....

2. Why don't they develop both projects at once, and field them in reasonable numbers? They have the budget. How hard will it be to restart raptor production if they do? Would doing so pay off? Where is the study the USAF was supposed to submit before January? Would a multirole,aa focused variant like the pak-fa work? Is having a fleet comprising mostly of JSFs even a good idea? Don't they still need raptors to deal with aircraft of equal status?

This question is getting too serious to belong in the loony bin move to general chat pls


1-Include politics too

2-Why? The only reason PAK FA is multi role is because the PAK FA is bigger.It fits the russian doctrine as you need more fuel to move across the wide motherland and have less airfields to operate from.So refueling or rearming is not as easy to them if you compare them to the americans with multiple carriers or allied airbases worldwide.
Multirole breaks specializaiton, the raptors smaller and doesnt really have the capacity to do decent bombings.Like sure the ability is there but your not gonna use a fork to drink soup.

Why would we restart raptor production? We started to use the raptors agaisnt ISIS a year ago for a short while as a test run.A few years ago on this forum when there was a political chat, I was hyped that ISIS had an airforce- That it was the PERFECT time to call in the raptors.Only to realise one of the raptors modern missles costs 4 of their planes (It was a cheap mig raided from iraq or syria, cant remember)

Currently theres no REAL reason to restart or refund the raptor program, aside from the F-35 which has started to see use what is the raptor going to be good agaisnt?
After the oil prices drop, unrest and a lot of other political factors in the last decade or so the only competitors to the raptor bein the J-20 J-31 and the PAK FA.
Which one of theese is finished?

Russian sources claim the PAK FA is nearly compleated, gotta give it to them they found a working engine that didnt blow up in 18 months.Even if its completed and the 8 prototypes that are built is put into service you think russias got the spending budget to make more? Maybe they could make a dozen more if they cut other stuff off but looking at how the armata program started from "The next generation tank" to a super modernization program for current tanks (god knows russia does not need more tanks/APC's they got enough armour for the entire population or almost the entire population to crew lol)

They got 20 armatas compleated, given that russian defence is centered around defence its generally better to invest into helicopters and S-400's then go for stealthy fighter bombers when your operations will generall be in your territory or near your borders/near the borders of your ally.Say for example to preform in the syrian crysis and based from iran.Russians would have a cheaper and more experianced time taking out anti air with paratroopers or heavy artillery then actually dancing in a radar coverd area and taking out fighters like the US F-22 can.As always thou russia will mosts likely sell this to India and show it off as a detterant/material for keyboard warrirors to debate on defence forums.Same with the tank drone thing they had going.Theres also a low chance that they'd sell it to china but if they do then expect a knockoff version in a year.

Like the or the J-11 and the SU 35 was it?



Then we go to china,


Chineese planes have more funding then the Qaher-313 program of irans but In my eyes they're equally the same kind of paper tiger.If someone is looking at their capability of designing jet engines (They cant hence I can like you 5 articles where they tried to steal some from america)
Hell while I was writing this I saw on wikipedia that the chineese hacked the f-35 program to steal info, so as always the J-20 will be something "As good" but not surpassing anyone in terms of technology.Also like russia they have rugged terrian and not alot of airfields they can use in the eastern more rual regions.So a bigger craft with more fuel/weapons fits them.They also have one ukrainian carrier thats effectiveness is something I'll say can be debated.
Dont take my word for it but the thing shut down around 4 times on its way to Syrian waters, do your own research.

So you see them rely on artificial islands in the south china sea dispute more then their carrier, their carrier based plane has had a bad track record on how adjusted it is to the carrier itself, but I havent been updated much on its current state.

The J-31 is chinas private/capitalist arm thats slowly growing teeth and hoping to race agaisnt the J-20 if/when it enters service.If I had to guess, looking the arrival of chinas first domestic carrier thats expected to be completed around the same time and is charecteristics to be closer to the F-35.I could tottaly see a non-vtol naval varriant of the J-31.

So In short theres no REAL Air to air opponentss to the raptor at the momment or till 2020 and beyond thats known.Like the F-15/F-18 program the US has blown them in their dust in both numbers produced and how they've been avaible and been combat tested.

But have no fear, If you want a raptor then how about a BETTER one?



This is miss febuary, Its a concept thats gotten good praise in the pentagon.Theres evidence enough to suggest that theres people working on it now.
However the raptor may be the last fighter jet thats got the best training and equipment merged to one, as theres enough funding and proof that unmanned systems are the way to go.Sad to say humans have limits and machines dont.

Hopefully we'll have world peace by then eh? biggrin.gif


We can dream


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3rdShockArmy
post 28 Mar 2017, 18:51
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As it was stated, Raptor was conceived at the end of the Cold War, when it was obvious that it would have to face thousands of advanced Russian Su-27s and MiG-29s. But, Soviet Union collapsed, so there were no thousands of those fighters and the Yanks realized they would have hundreds of orbitally expensive air superiority jets that do - nothing. Simply because the big threat from the East disappeared at once. Retrofitting the F-22 for multirole or ground attack variant only would be 3 to 4 times more expensive than the development of the F-35 itself (which by itself is extremely expensive). Although F-35 had its setbacks, as Bruce said, it's an immortal project and there's so much money investe


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 28 Mar 2017, 22:56
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What you all seem to forget is that through the F-35's development the raptor (and generally all American/allied aircraft) have become FAR deadlier and more effective.
A very large swarth of the budget for the F-35 was invested into the IT side of things, and adding in far more interconnectivity between all us weapons.

When the raptor first rolled out of the factory it was running on less power than your average laptop today. With the huge investment and retrofit of the JSF the US has pretty much had to refit its entire modern fleet so that its other aircraft have the same interconnectivity that the F-35 has.


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__CrUsHeR
post 28 Mar 2017, 23:59
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 28 Mar 2017, 18:56) *
What you all seem to forget is that through the F-35's development the raptor (and generally all American/allied aircraft) have become FAR deadlier and more effective.
A very large swarth of the budget for the F-35 was invested into the IT side of things, and adding in far more interconnectivity between all us weapons.

When the raptor first rolled out of the factory it was running on less power than your average laptop today. With the huge investment and retrofit of the JSF the US has pretty much had to refit its entire modern fleet so that its other aircraft have the same interconnectivity that the F-35 has.

Important point. To what extent was this interconnectivity important for the F-35 and the JSF from a purely technical/military point of view? Now think about IT business, it's easier to understand why the F-35 is a profitable business-to-business gamble (it integrates virtually all of the latest-generation US technologies into one machine); at the end of the day it seems that business is ahead of the quality or technical capacity of this aircraft, but that obviously will not be a failure due to the investment and investor pressure for a reasonable final product.

I think the F-35 will be more important for progress and lessons that will bring to the industrial sector than for its practical performance.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 29 Mar 2017, 1:39
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The integration technology in the F-35 is absolutely amazing.
like, a navel destroyer can shoot a cruise missile, it can fly long out of range of the ship, the F-35 can then guide the missile down manually to its target. The F-35 can then swap out of that into say, its own combat mission, then after its done that maybe give fire support to troops on the ground, in which they would be able to see what the F-35 saw all in a single flight.

Now imagine that level of integration for the F-22 in a dogfight scenario. The pilot would be able to know and see exactly where their target was long before they even came close (true BVR) and with the new technologies combined with current missiles, the target could be accurately tracked and destroyed.

So its not just business decisions and all that, the technology in these aircraft is absolutely insane and it is designed to make up for the supposed short falls in the aircrafts physical design


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__CrUsHeR
post 29 Mar 2017, 1:45
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I believe that is fantastic the technology involved in the project and the capabilities of the aircraft should be exceptional, but I do not know if the investment will in fact bring the promised superiority due to all reports of problems already detected in the aircraft; as a business the aircraft is a guaranteed success.


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Star_Abraham
post 5 Apr 2017, 16:49
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You loosers don't want to admit the F-35 gonna eat all your bumbums.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 5 Apr 2017, 23:22
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oi, i love the F-35 what you smoking?


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Star_Abraham
post 7 Apr 2017, 16:44
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 5 Apr 2017, 18:22) *
oi, i love the F-35 what you smoking?




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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 7 Apr 2017, 23:56
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ye fam, fuck my shit up


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