Balancing Discussion, Debating if features in the game could use more balancing tweaks Options

If you think a feature / unit / ability / general is overpowered / underpowered please express them here.

I will start with the Phosphor air strike from GLA Salvage. It seems a bit overpowered. It destroys most buildings (war factory, strategy center), has a fair radius, leaves the superweapon with 25% or lower health and has a 3 minute cooldown. It's much more powerful compared to other airstrikes such as the A10. What do you think?

[Chyros]

It's pretty easy to stop though. The planes are quite weak. Also, it lacks sudden impact power, limiting its use against clusters of units, for example. However, it IS very powerful, I agree.

[woxenrud]

I have always felt that the stealth general is a bit weak against artillery but maybe that's just me

The best way to deal with artillery is with cammo units like the Rocket Assassins or with motorcycle terrorists.

The repair post from Leang could do well with a bit more range, it takes too much space and it's harder to keep my defense repairing dozers healthy than with the propaganda tower. Plus it doesn't heal infantry or repair aircraft so increasing it's radius would not create an imbalance.

I most certainly would not mind helicopters overall to be repaired faster at the airport...

Reason for edit: Merge Posts / Please use next time "Edit"

Game keeps crashing in Challenge mode..and when I play Multiplayer it crashes occassionally on the victory screen. Seems like this problem was carried over from 95 and 951.
Any suggestions..cuz this is getting old real fast.

This post has been edited by Nikon: 17 Dec 2010, 6:17

[ed3891]

Game keeps crashing in Challenge mode..and when I play Multiplayer it crashes occassionally on the victory screen. Seems like this problem was carried over from 95 and 951.
Any suggestions..cuz this is getting old real fast.

I'm pretty bloody sure that's SAGE being SAGE.

I'm new to the forum, can you please tell me what SAGE is? I've been seeing it quite a lot.

How do find Deathstrike to be compared to other GLA generals?

[Chyros]

I'm new to the forum, can you please tell me what SAGE is? I've been seeing it quite a lot.

How do find Deathstrike to be compared to other GLA generals?

The SAGE engine is the game engine on which Generals and Zero Hour are based. It controls the programming of the game, so to speak. It's also notoriously limited in many ways.

I had a hunch that was it, but it's best to be sure. Thank you.

[The_Hunter]

Game keeps crashing in Challenge mode..and when I play Multiplayer it crashes occassionally on the victory screen. Seems like this problem was carried over from 95 and 951.
Any suggestions..cuz this is getting old real fast.

We've only recently found out a possible couse could be for these random crashes and are planning to resolve these errors with the new version.
Note that it is no garantee that it will actualy resolve the problems but i do have good hopes for it.

[Guest_alabaster_*]

We've only recently found out a possible couse could be for these random crashes and are planning to resolve these errors with the new version.
Note that it is no garantee that it will actualy resolve the problems but i do have good hopes for it.

Excellent! I haven't been able to get beyond challenge 3 for a while. Be good to play through the entire thing.

[The_Hunter]

actualy the generals challenge shouldn't be crashing anymore this was verified by myself before 1.0 was released.

[Guest_alabaster_*]

actualy the generals challenge shouldn't be crashing anymore this was verified by myself before 1.0 was released.

Hmm. I don't have a particularly new computer so that might be it. It definitely crashes just after I've won a match and just before it saves, which is just typical!

[The_Hunter]

If i'm not mistaking your running the game from a mac to begin with so your likely not to have set the files up properly as the pc launcher does.

I sometimes got the occasional crash at the end of a challenge, but it worked fine after the second try.

[Guest_alabaster_*]

If i'm not mistaking your running the game from a mac to begin with so your likely not to have set the files up properly as the pc launcher does.

That is very possible! I put the gibs in the ZH folder, made them bigs, movies in the movies and and changed the script files to .bck and the .ini to .org.

I possibly have some guff left over from other installs too. Will have a bit of a clean and see what happens.

And a comment about the actual topic…

I don't find Toxin very strong but perhaps I just don't know how to play him well… or I know how to beat him well… or both.

I found several thing today to be a bit too weak and could use changing or improving.
The vanilla GLA mine general ability. It's terrain dependent (must have smooth terrain), unlike the Chinese one; can't be used in the middle of enemy troops because it will be destroyed fast; are easily cleared after detection, unlike Chinese mines. And I am not sure if they have an automatic detonation besides the manual because I was never able to use them because they were easily destroyed. On a side note the Chinese mines are pretty hard to clear out without explosives. I don't know if dozers clear them out easier... but GLA workers are terrible at it. You can't send them to clear out a zone, not with guard area, not with ctrl and the clear mine ability doesn't work to well either. And I think it has a cooldown, it's terrible to see them clearing a mine one by one with 10 seconds in between. Is it me or is it a little bugged? Anyway for the GLA mines I propose to make the ability place 4 self building explosive barrels spaced in between so one doesn't detonate the other. I would be awesome if it could be done, at least in my opinion.

I don't know if it's working properly, but the vanilla Chinese Mig 25% speed upgrade does squat. I raced it in multiplayer and the upgraded one won on a small 1v1 map's length by a plane's size... That helps... How? This isn't horse raising. A bigger bonus is needed or use the upgrade slot for something else. It's nothing compared to the overlord's speed boost.

I agree with alabaster, Toxin is pretty weak against tanks and even more against buildings. Trying to destroy defenses with artillery is a slow process and can be easily countered. And trying to push through a tough defense with structure damaging tanks like marauders and scorpions or what ever may not pay off. Maybe he could use something like corrosive toxins...

Is it worth investing 3 points in the demolition general ambush? Those 6 fanatics don't seem to do much damage, not to buildings in any case and if killed by bullets they don't detonate. The explosive barrel paradrop seems a much more destructive investment to me.

Any opinions on the matter?

The Phoenix Bomber concussion stun is too short to take advantage of. Maybe they are best used in the middle of combat, but that is a bit hard to manage. Does anybody use them? At least it's faster than the mig, even the upgraded one...

[Darkfire Angel]

The speed upgrade is useful when racing against rockets, since they run out of fuel after a certain distance and the Mig can obviously cover that distance quicker. It also adds up don't forget, if the mig can get to its target 25% and back to reload 25%, you're gaining quite an advantage.
I agree about the Gla mine trap though, it's pretty much next to useless. I would prefer to see them changed so that only the center mine trigger them so that you can catch hordes with them, and not have them blow up after awhile.
As for the Concussion upgrade, it homes into it's target which is always a plus but they're micro intensive. You need to have you migs right on their tails with an attack to take advantage of the stun effect, though it could be longer I feel.

I agree with the concussion effect being longer. But can migs actually outrun rockets with that upgrade? It seems such a small difference. Barely noticeable.

[Stubbjax]

Anyway for the GLA mines I propose to make the ability place 4 self building explosive barrels spaced in between so one doesn't detonate the other. I would be awesome if it could be done, at least in my opinion.

I think you are underestimating their usefulness. They are cheap, deadly and also work as good distractions. A single GLA mine once completely turned the tide of a game where I knew I was done for. (I actually found I have the replay as well) My opponent had about 4 or so mdvees coming at me heading for my right flank and I had nothing to defend with but a few quads which were all the way across the map flanking his chinooks. Knowing I was dead I decided to just plant demo traps all over the place in the hope he would run over them. Much to my delight, he actually did run into them and his whole mdvee army was gone. It was pretty much GG from there.

 I_Love_My_Demo_Trap.zip ( 13.93K ) Number of downloads: 14



At the start of a game they can be very powerful if you place them well along your flanks and in choke points, however later on they are pretty useless unless used in masses and your opponent forgets stealth detection.

Is it worth investing 3 points in the demolition general ambush? Those 6 fanatics don't seem to do much damage, not to buildings in any case and if killed by bullets they don't detonate. The explosive barrel paradrop seems a much more destructive investment to me.

I always use them as they instantly appear and are unstoppable. They work extremely well on swarms of enemy units as well as GLA tunnel sneak attacks. Also a good way to take out enemy power plants.

[Chyros]

I agree with the concussion effect being longer. But can migs actually outrun rockets with that upgrade? It seems such a small difference. Barely noticeable.

Afterburners give MiGs a 15% chance to negate missiles entirely, like flares - NOT counting those they outrun on top of that. Especially against RPGs, which have almost no fuel at all, the difference in outrun speed is felt, too.

I think you are underestimating their usefulness. They are cheap, deadly and also work as good distractions. A single GLA mine once completely turned the tide of a game where I knew I was done for.

You missed the subject. I wasn't talking about demo traps. Play with vanilla GLA and invest in the mine drop or whatever it's called, you will see what I am talking about. I actually suggested replacing that thing with 4 self building demo traps.

[Sharpnessism]

MiGs can out run rockets after they've turned away from them without the upgrade but its valuable against quads and gatts which have very long range. The quicker speed helps them get out of AA range quicker and allows them to get back to base faster to reload for another attack. It's a relatively cheap, fast upgrade too, if it saves just one MiG you will have made back its cost.

Have you ever noticed the difference with and without the upgrade? I actually did a race with an upgraded mig and what that was not, one from vanilla china and one from special weapons. On a small 1v1 map from one corner of the map to another the upgraded one was ahead with a plane's length, that's like... two meters... Run from anti air? Make a difference? Be serious. It could outrun rockets before and it can do it the same now.