IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Russia and the project of future tank (5th Generation)
__CrUsHeR
post 5 Mar 2013, 12:26
Post #1



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



The experimental model of the tank will be presented in 2015, its serial production will start a year or two later. This development will be the first step towards the creation of weapons "unmanned", called "combat robots" that spoke the authors of science fiction works of the last century.

The military expert Igor Korotchenko explains what it is:

"It will be a tank equipped with a reinforced capsule that will ensure the preservation of the lives of the crew in conditions of combat operations real. Ammunition will be screened out of the capsule. At no tower and no one can be loaded cannon and fire automatically without man's participation. pointing the - operator will take care only to indicate the target and choose the type of projectile, designed to achieve the target. Therefore, it is a platform shielded completely unified and automated which will play a wide circle of missions in combat operations and is an industry first national armored. "

The expert Aleksandr Gurov believes that the wars of the future man's role is reduced to the mission of the organization. Therefore, similar developments are indispensable.

"In the case of an intervention from outer space or on the part of some foreign country, the defense should include both soldiers and robots, unmanned planes and tanks and other kinds of weapons.'s An imposition of the XXI century. Russia is a power that other states can not ignore and that has a wonderful community of scientists. The country should develop similar weapons. "

The existence of heavy Armata platform was unveiled last summer. It is being developed since 2009 and should become the basis of a whole range of modern heavy tanks, the tanks and infantry special vehicles designed to tank brigades and mechanized infantry. The development project is undertaken by Uralvagonzavod's largest industrial complex - Russia's military. Incidentally, today this same company also is developing two more combat platforms - and the Kurganets Bumerang. The Army will receive next year war material built on this basis.

The General Staff Gen. approved the program of creating a series of tanks, which could change the whole structure of armored forces. Developing tank designs - robots got to be done even in Soviet times, but after the collapse of the country all these projects have been frozen. Now scientists and engineers try to revive this promising idea, just as many other projects for the reform of the Armed Forces.

Russian President Dmitri Medvedev recently stated in college Defence Ministry that the reform of the Armed Forces had already yielded serious results - the combat capability of the troops, as well as the degree of equipment with modern war materials increased.

"In general, thanks to the reforms we have made new military, much better able to withstand the threats of our time and respond to potential threats that may arise."

The state has earmarked 20 trillion rubles, ie about 660 billion dollars for the rearmament of the Armed Forces until the year 2020, which will lead to qualitative changes in the equipment of the Armed Forces with new types of armaments.


Armata platform
-------------------------------------------------

The efficiency of the vehicle will compensate the mega investment? Will be this the tank of the future? We'll know in 2015...

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 5 Mar 2013, 12:35


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dangerman
post 5 Mar 2013, 12:51
Post #2


I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna break you
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 529
Joined: 18 August 2010
From: Wirral, United Kingdom
Member No.: 1107



I've heard the production Armata may actually be shown in September of this year (though not be in service until 2015).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 5 Mar 2013, 13:04
Post #3



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



QUOTE (dangerman1337 @ 5 Mar 2013, 8:51) *
I've heard the production Armata may actually be shown in September of this year (though not be in service until 2015).


Yes, the platform Armata will be presented very soon, but an automated version only in 2015.


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 5 Mar 2013, 18:31
Post #4



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5867
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



Military future predictions of the United States are always taken with a grain of salt; the same thing should be done when talking about Russian, Chinese, European etc. technologies. It's always easier to imagine this cool, futuristic stuff on paper but at the end of the day, economics and politics decide how much of this is going to become a reality and these two tend to be more unpredictable than the designers and proponents of such cutting-edge weapons would have it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serialkillerwhal...
post 8 Mar 2013, 9:34
Post #5


Orcinius Genocidalus
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2409
Joined: 11 July 2012
From: North Vancouver
Member No.: 9223
No, you move.



It's not real, we'd need to see more UAV and USV tech before this would happen.
If they have the tech for an unmanned tank, they'd have the tech for unmanned trucks and recon planes already, which would have been used.

It's simply not feasable for them to skip so much unmanned tech.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 8 Mar 2013, 11:19
Post #6



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



QUOTE (Serialkillerwhale @ 8 Mar 2013, 5:34) *
It's not real, we'd need to see more UAV and USV tech before this would happen.
If they have the tech for an unmanned tank, they'd have the tech for unmanned trucks and recon planes already, which would have been used.

It's simply not feasable for them to skip so much unmanned tech.


Do not seems logical your reasoning - because they need to develop other robots before Tank? huh.gif


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Serialkillerwhal...
post 8 Mar 2013, 13:17
Post #7


Orcinius Genocidalus
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2409
Joined: 11 July 2012
From: North Vancouver
Member No.: 9223
No, you move.



Mostly because those robots generally have simpler AIs meaning if they can build a tank, they can build a truck or recon plane already.
There's no reason not to, so why won't they?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 8 Mar 2013, 16:35
Post #8



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



QUOTE (Serialkillerwhale @ 8 Mar 2013, 9:17) *
Mostly because those robots generally have simpler AIs meaning if they can build a tank, they can build a truck or recon plane already.
There's no reason not to, so why won't they?


Actually they already do this in parallel and the tank will not have an AI, will be remotely controlled as with the unmanned aircrafts.


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Col._Sandfurz
post 13 Mar 2013, 11:36
Post #9



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 64
Joined: 6 November 2012
Member No.: 9428



QUOTE (MARS @ 5 Mar 2013, 18:31) *
Military future predictions of the United States are always taken with a grain of salt; the same thing should be done when talking about Russian, Chinese, European etc. technologies. It's always easier to imagine this cool, futuristic stuff on paper but at the end of the day, economics and politics decide how much of this is going to become a reality and these two tend to be more unpredictable than the designers and proponents of such cutting-edge weapons would have it.

^ this!!

I highly doubt that we will see a completely new tank family in 2015.. too early. Russian scientists and engineers are very good, but you see delays everywere, especially in projects that try to make a vehicle that can perform a lot of tasks. Remember the F.35 Lightning II.. huge budget owerflows and lag of delivery dates..
Also keep in mind that delayed developnement can not only be seen in US and European military gear, but also occures in the east.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 13 Mar 2013, 12:23
Post #10



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



I agree that it is hard to believe that in 2015 the Russian army will replace their old tanks series 'T' by Armata, however Russia, unlike the western countries, urgently needs to modernize its entire army to continue to exercise its geo-political influence, the Russian army today still preserves the patterns of the former Soviet Union, ie, a large army outdated - compared with other military powers like USA, UK, France, Germany - and without an adequate logistics to keep it 'operational', the recent war against Georgia evidenced these problems.

Moscow is investing 20 trillions rubles to modernize the whole army and they are not kidding when say they want to back to being a super military power. Perhaps the Armata is not ready to be produced in 2015 however'll be very soon because it is vital for Russia.


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 13 Mar 2013, 13:12
Post #11



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5867
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the Armata tank ended up as a rare vehicle reserved only for the most elite of tank units while the broader mass of the Russian military continues to use/upgrade the less spectacular albeit still reliable T-80 for a while. That's kinda what you have to do if you want to run a large 'Eastern-style' military whereas 'Western-style' militaries tend to be smaller by comparison, but more standardised.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dangerman
post 13 Mar 2013, 20:14
Post #12


I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna break you
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 529
Joined: 18 August 2010
From: Wirral, United Kingdom
Member No.: 1107



QUOTE (MARS @ 13 Mar 2013, 13:12) *
If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the Armata tank ended up as a rare vehicle reserved only for the most elite of tank units while the broader mass of the Russian military continues to use/upgrade the less spectacular albeit still reliable T-80 for a while. That's kinda what you have to do if you want to run a large 'Eastern-style' military whereas 'Western-style' militaries tend to be smaller by comparison, but more standardised.

From the looks of it I will not be surprised if the Armata becomes the sole Russian tank since over 2000 MBTs (which is about number as the current amount of tanks that Russia currently operates) will be produced so they won't have to deal logistics of multiple MBTs, though I can see the T-80 being put in reserve as with the T-72 it is still useful (though older tanks will be scrapped). Not sure about the T-90 however.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 13 Mar 2013, 20:42
Post #13



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5867
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



Yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up for the T-90 either. From what I've read, they didn't produce that many of them and the whole thing didn't really go anywhere. Kinda felt like an interim that didn't take off.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 13 Mar 2013, 21:04
Post #14



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



The tanks of the series 'T' will probably continue to be produced after the Armata enter service however will be intended for import already possessing good qualities and are reliable. The Armata should meet the domestic needs of Russia and based on this new configuration (Armata) other vehicles should enter into service very soon.


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 13 Mar 2013, 22:08
Post #15



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5867
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



Wouldn't the Armata still be part of the T-series itself? The Russians have been labelling their tanks as T-[] since what feels like the end of WW2 (back then, they also had KV and IS tanks, named after Kliment Voroshilov and Iosif Stalin). At some point, they'll probably just switch over to T-[three digit number] and carry on.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 13 Mar 2013, 22:35
Post #16



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



Technically it will not be part of the series 'T' because its chassis and the tower will be completely redesigned, this is the newness of the Armata, instead of adaptations and improvisations as the T-90 which is actually just the T-80 with some improvements the Armata is a completely new tank that served as a platform (chassis, engine, equipment) for new vehicles based on this 'chassis' Armata, based on this new platform that includes a tower not manned the car will be subsequently adapted for unmanned missions.

As you can see is a vehicle for 5th Generation (not manned) technically superior to the old tanks of the series 'T'.


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 14 Mar 2013, 6:18
Post #17



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5867
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



Still, why would they stray from their naming pattern? Of course it's technically different from the T-90, T-80, T-72 etc. but at the end of the day, they'd probably stick to the system that has been in use for decades. If the US ever decide to replace their Abrams tanks with an entirely new design, chances are it'd be labelled as the M[] as well, simply because they did that with every tank since WW2.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DerKrieger
post 14 Mar 2013, 6:38
Post #18



Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 838
Joined: 7 June 2009
From: Southeastern USA
Member No.: 47



QUOTE (MARS @ 13 Mar 2013, 15:42) *
Yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up for the T-90 either. From what I've read, they didn't produce that many of them and the whole thing didn't really go anywhere. Kinda felt like an interim that didn't take off.


Actually, the Russian Army did purchase several hundred of them, and they recently developed a new variant of the tank. From what I hear they're mostly holding off until the new tank comes out within the next few years, though.


--------------------
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."-- George S. Patton


Resquiescat in pace, CommanderJB 1991-2009
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Knjaz.
post 15 Mar 2013, 7:32
Post #19



Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 1827
Joined: 29 May 2012
Member No.: 9155



Hah, I just discovered this forum. Never really digged SWR forums until now biggrin.gif

QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 5 Mar 2013, 14:04) *
Yes, the platform Armata will be presented very soon, but an automated version only in 2015.


Depends on the Kremlin, actually. I heard rumors they may postpone showing it to the public, but you can never be sure here.

QUOTE (Col._Sandfurz @ 13 Mar 2013, 12:36) *
I highly doubt that we will see a completely new tank family in 2015.. too early. Russian scientists and engineers are very good, but you see delays everywere, especially in projects that try to make a vehicle that can perform a lot of tasks. Remember the F.35 Lightning II.. huge budget owerflows and lag of delivery dates..
<...>


QUOTE (MARS @ 13 Mar 2013, 14:12) *
If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the Armata tank ended up as a rare vehicle reserved only for the most elite of tank units while the broader mass of the Russian military continues to use/upgrade the less spectacular albeit still reliable T-80 for a while. That's kinda what you have to do if you want to run a large 'Eastern-style' military whereas 'Western-style' militaries tend to be smaller by comparison, but more standardised.



Unlikely. The whole reason of switching from Object. 195 to Armata was to reduce it's price. Basically, Armata is a downgraded 195 (with some tech. improvements that happened during the period) , that's why it's development took just several years. You can't create an entirely new vehicle in that period (and make it work well at same time).


QUOTE (MARS @ 13 Mar 2013, 21:42) *
Yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up for the T-90 either. From what I've read, they didn't produce that many of them and the whole thing didn't really go anywhere. Kinda felt like an interim that didn't take off.


QUOTE (DerKrieger @ 14 Mar 2013, 7:38) *
Actually, the Russian Army did purchase several hundred of them, and they recently developed a new variant of the tank. From what I hear they're mostly holding off until the new tank comes out within the next few years, though.


That's correct. There're different opinions within MOD, but it's mainly about should they just upgrade existing tanks while waiting for the next gen. one, how exactly should they upgrade em, or should they buy T-90's instead because some upgrade's costs almost matches the cost of new T-90.



Also, where did you guys get information for Armata being "unmanned"? It will only have an unmanned tower.

P.S. When it comes to wishes of implementing more unmanned combat vehicles into RuArmy, "Russian military experts" are the last people to listen, seriously. (although there are few decent among them, but they don't get into press that often, especially in resources like ngo/nvo, lenta.ru etc). There won't be any unmanned tanks on the battlefield (at least mass produced ones), until there will be a way to keep them operational in the (relative-) vicinity of nuclear blast, "heavy" EW environment, etc.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 15 Mar 2013, 7:46
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dangerman
post 15 Mar 2013, 8:33
Post #20


I'm gonna make you, I'm gonna break you
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 529
Joined: 18 August 2010
From: Wirral, United Kingdom
Member No.: 1107



QUOTE (Knjaz. @ 15 Mar 2013, 7:32) *
That's correct. There're different opinions within MOD, but it's mainly about should they just upgrade existing tanks while waiting for the next gen. one, how exactly should they upgrade em, or should they buy T-90's instead because some upgrade's costs almost matches the cost of new T-90.

Also, where did you guys get information for Armata being "unmanned"? It will only have an unmanned tower.

P.S. When it comes to wishes of implementing more unmanned combat vehicles into RuArmy, "Russian military experts" are the last people to listen, seriously. (although there are few decent among them, but they don't get into press that often, especially in resources like ngo/nvo, lenta.ru etc). There won't be any unmanned tanks on the battlefield (at least mass produced ones), until there will be a way to keep them operational in the (relative-) vicinity of nuclear blast, "heavy" EW environment, etc.

Well the T-90AM which is a new version does have new stuff like vastly improved ammo storage to protect the crew if it goes off: http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/new...8/#post-6537396 which means that the Russians could just buy say 2000 T-90 AMs, upgrade the existing ones and maybe flog off T-72s (they're still capable tanks in they're own right, most poor performance of the T-72 is from Iraqis who used a ultra-shitty copy cat which were far worse than even soviet monkey models and the Iraqis being hiarlously incompetent) and T-80s with maybe with a few modernization packages for a cheap price for some extra cash. Then afterwards they could focus on a 4th generation MBT in say two decades so they can focus on the polishing a design than trying to play catch up with the west.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 15 Mar 2013, 9:21
Post #21



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5867
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



That new T-90 looks pretty cool. Still very distinctly Russian but not as jagged and edgy as usual.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Knjaz.
post 15 Mar 2013, 9:44
Post #22



Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 1827
Joined: 29 May 2012
Member No.: 9155



Armata's production should begin in nearest years, not in next decades. As I said, it's basically redesigned 195th, which turned out to be
1) extremely expensive, by Russian standarts (400 million roubles for prototype vehicle with current production capabilities. Around 13 millions USD)
2) Required huge amounts of investment into MIC production capabilities to be able to mass produce that vehicle.

T-80's will be scrapped due to high maintenance costs, especially since T-90 from 1993 already had a better protection than T-80U, as firing tests that were conducted before second Chechen campaign have shown, and T-90A offers a significant improvement over T-90.

T-72B had their armor upgraded several times, in 1985-1989. MOD does not consider them as useless as you do.

"2000 tanks for RuArmy" is an inaccurate number, even if we'll talk only about the amount of tanks that will stay in "first line" units. Although I can't find the specific information on that part, atm, where guys were counting amount of tank btlns in brigades.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 15 Mar 2013, 9:46
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Knjaz.
post 15 Mar 2013, 10:30
Post #23



Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 1827
Joined: 29 May 2012
Member No.: 9155



QUOTE (MARS @ 15 Mar 2013, 10:21) *
That new T-90 looks pretty cool. Still very distinctly Russian but not as jagged and edgy as usual.


Well, if you're talking about T-90CM (T-90SM), that's an export version. Guess that affected it's outer looks. T-90AM was not shown to public, afaik, and previous MoD higher-ups were preferring to wait for the next gen. vehicle.

Also, "Armata" is often referred not as a tank, but as a platform for various vehicle types. There's already a set of vehicle types being ordered for development by one of MOD directorates, on the basis of that platform.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 15 Mar 2013, 12:27
Post #24



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



QUOTE (Knjaz. @ 15 Mar 2013, 3:32) *
Also, where did you guys get information for Armata being "unmanned"? It will only have an unmanned tower.

P.S. When it comes to wishes of implementing more unmanned combat vehicles into RuArmy, "Russian military experts" are the last people to listen, seriously. (although there are few decent among them, but they don't get into press that often, especially in resources like ngo/nvo, lenta.ru etc). There won't be any unmanned tanks on the battlefield (at least mass produced ones), until there will be a way to keep them operational in the (relative-) vicinity of nuclear blast, "heavy" EW environment, etc.


Russia is building the tank at the base of the fifth generation of the platform Armata heavy terminating several completely new technical solutions. This combat vehicle will be remotely operated and fitted with a digital cannon.

Source (in Portuguese): http://portuguese.ruvr.ru/2012_03_27/69761981/

Note: Apparently the Armata may conduct non-manned missions being controlled from a distance, however will be able to be manned if the commander desired.

P.S.: The advantages of having a non-manned vehicle for high-risk missions in hostile environments or is something meaningful for the one who holds such an advantage, however remotely controlled systems are an open door for electronic warfare.
--------------------------

Russia probably will not dismantle all its tanks T-80, T-90, not without first testing in a real war Armata performance, however some reserve battalions will probably be replaced, as well as special units should receive some Armatas, and gradually the new tanks should be used as the front line of RuArmy in the future.

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 15 Mar 2013, 12:43


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
__CrUsHeR
post 15 Mar 2013, 13:12
Post #25



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2622
Joined: 18 April 2012
From: Southern Brazil.
Member No.: 9084
"No. Not even in the face of Armageddon. Never compromise."



This news released today by the Vice-Premier Dmitri Rogozin confirms the intentions of Russia to sudden changes in its military doctrine, adapting to the 'methods of conducting combat actions without contact'.

The news:

Compliance with the state program of retrofitting the Russian Army must resolve, by the year 2020, the task of transition to the so-called methods of conducting combat actions without contact, in order to minimize loss of life, today said the Vice Premier, Dmitri Rogozin.

"We need to make our Armed Forces begin using the methods of conducting war without contact, to be faster than the opponent, and we can destroy it before it comes into his head the idea of ​​the possible destruction of our troops," emphasized Rogozin.

Source (in Portuguese): http://portuguese.ruvr.ru/2013_03_15/Novas-armas-do-Exercito-russo-possibilitarao-acoes-de-combate-sem-contato/


--------------------

You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24 April 2018 - 9:50