The fates of the Zero Hour generals, Correct me if i'm wrong Options

[Joe Kidd]

I just thought i'd list what happened to the ZH generals in the ROTR storyline, if im wrong, feel free to correct me

Here goes:

USA:

Alexander: Retired following deactivation of advanced costly units.

Townes: Court martialed for his mutiny at Fort Union over the cost of laser tech

Granger: Was caught up in the 'aurora scandal' and was forced to resign

Ironside: unknown, probably retired

China:

Tao: court martialed and shut down due to one-too-many accidents

Kwai: retired with full honours

Fai: also retired with full honours

Leang: court martialed due to the whole particle cannon, faux M16, scuds, etc debacle

GLA:

Thrax: killed at the end of USA mission 5

Juhziz: killed in the GLA retreat from europe by his own nuclear blast in hamburg

Kassad: believed killed in GLA mission 2, but with this guy who knows?

Deathstrike: killed by unknown assassin agter return to africa, sulayman takes over.

This post has been edited by Joe Kidd: 18 May 2013, 18:40

[__CrUsHeR]

I just thought i'd list what happened to the ZH generals in the ROTR storyline, if im wrong, feel free to correct me

Here goes:

USA:

Alexander: Retired following deactivation of advanced costly units.

Townes: Court martialed for his mutiny at Fort Union over the cost of laser tech

Granger: Was caught up in the 'aurora scandal' and was forced to resign

Ironside: unknown, probably retired

The Ironside does not officially part of ZH.

China:

Tao: court martialed and shut down due to one-too-many accidents

Kwai: retired with full honours

Fai: also retired with full honours

The Fai was fighting the GLA in occupied Germany and was eliminated along with the Jhuziz after the nuclear explosion.

Leang: court martialed due to the whole particle cannon, faux M16, scuds, etc debacle

GLA:

Thrax: killed at the end of USA mission 5

Juhziz: killed in the GLA retreat from europe by his own nuclear blast in hamburg

Kassad: believed killed in GLA mission 2, but with this guy who knows?

The responsible for the death of Kassad was Sulaymaan.

Deathstrike: killed by unknown assassin agter return to africa, sulayman takes over.

[H3adSh00t]

Who knows about Kassad.. When you took over his Command Centers he might left, or you(the commander) took him as a prisoner and forced to cooperate with GLA..

[__CrUsHeR]

See the description of the picture with the image of Sulaymaan.

[(USA)Bruce]

Actually Im guessing If I've picked up from MARS's writing style hes probably going to make something like erm...

Tie the fact that Leang had King raptors and USA tech....Maybe something to do with Granger and Townes, something that made townes go rouge...

[MARS]

ROTR-canon:

Townes: Mutinied against the termination of his laser projects and locked his base at Fort Union. The standoff presumably ended with him detained and trialled, considering that he's not exactly the charismatic sort of leader who would convince his men to open fire on their own comrades.
Granger: Fate unknown, implied to have been involved in the Aurora scandal.
Alexander: Fate unknown, implied to have been involved in the Aurora scandal. I didn't make this too clear because Bruce used her character in his fan-fic at some point and I didn't want to directly contradict that point.
Ironside: Didn't exist.

Kassad: Betrayed the GLA again after the death of Deathstrike (awful pun intended) and got executed by Sulaymaan himself after he got tired of Kassad's bullshit
Juhziz: Stayed behind to destroy Hamburg with a nuke while Deathstrike and Sulaymaan made their escape
Thrax: Died in the conclusion of the ZH USA campaign
Deathstrike: Assassinated after the 2028 insurrection, presumably by the Mossad

Fai: Died in the nuclear explosion that destroyed Hamburg
Kwai: Retired with full honours. The PLA even threw a parade for him. Vaguely implied to be deceased by now; the guy didn't look exactly healthy for a start.
Tao: Retired and alive to comment on - and justify - the European nuclear strikes in 2048. The fact that his statement is acknowledged by a state-run news channel suggests that he didn't fall out of favour.
Leang: Discharged over 'one particularly excessive public scandal'

[(USA)Bruce]

Alexanders an old grumpy and cocky hag in my fanfic,Complaining yet still an honurary General....She doesnt command the spirit of freedom...theres an admiral for that but she holds respect more then rank...
maybe Commander richard enjoys having her greatest weapon....her brain.Or maybe Alex will just not retire and is a dedicated general...*shrugs*
Didnt mean to box in your work Mars
My stuff doesnt/shouldnt have to be canon,but semicanon or plausble...

This post has been edited by (USA)Bruce: 18 May 2013, 21:15

[Xofolez]

Leang: Discharged over 'one particularly excessive public scandal'

SSSSSLLLLLLLUUUUTTTT!!!

[Warpath]

Alexanders an old grumpy and cocky hag in my fanfic,Complaining yet still an honurary General....She doesnt command the spirit of freedom...theres an admiral for that but she holds respect more then rank...
maybe Commander richard enjoys having her greatest weapon....her brain.Or maybe Alex will just not retire and is a dedicated general...*shrugs*
Didnt mean to box in your work Mars
My stuff doesnt/shouldnt have to be canon,but semicanon or plausble...

Can I get the link to that fic?

[Svea Rike]

Kassad: Betrayed the GLA again after the death of Deathstrike (awful pun intended) and got executed by Sulaymaan himself after he got tired of Kassad's bullshit
Juhziz: Stayed behind to destroy Hamburg with a nuke while Deathstrike and Sulaymaan made their escape
Thrax: Died in the conclusion of the ZH USA campaign
Deathstrike: Assassinated after the 2028 insurrection, presumably by the Mossad

On a similar topic I wonder who was the first GLA leader? Thrax or Deathstrike?

[Xofolez]

On a similar topic I wonder who was the first GLA leader? Thrax or Deathstrike?

Im pretty sure Deathstrike as it was him who drew together the various independent terror cells

[GeneralCamo]

Before Deathstrike, Thrax controlled the majority of the GLA (Even Deathstrike served with him from the hints of the Dialogue). However, not all of them necessarily agreed with him (Like that GLA Splinter in USA 5). Of course, those that were still friendly with either the USA or the Chinese either allied with Deathstrike after Thrax died, or died at the hands of Deathstrike/Sulaymann.

[MARS]

We operate under the assumption that Deathstrike was the GLA's main leader ever since the beginning and it has been stated in an MTG that Yusuuf was actually one his earliest high-ranking supporters. Thrax became important because he provided one of the GLA's most crucial weapons, but his goofy Joker-type personality suggests that he wasn't really in it for any sort of overarching goal besides power and the ability to spread chaos. It is entirely fair to assume that his own ego went overboard at some point - mirroring Aleksandr's development, incidentally - and that he became a loose cannon within the GLA itself, threatening Deathstrikes original agenda (= to rid the Middle East and Central Asia from American/Chinese influence) and explaining why a splinter faction teamed up with US forces during the finale.

Here's a basic breakdown of how we interpreted the characters for ROTR's canon:

Deathstrike = Leader of the GLA. Motivated by pan-Arabic and pan-Turkic nationalism and anti-imperialism. Since regional nationalism is often reinforced by local religions, we can assume that his world view also had an Islamic component (much like North Korea, while nominally god-worshipping the Kims, still acknowledges Buddhism as a core component of Korean nationalism whereas South Korea has a large population of Protestants), but more along the lines of 'it's the moral foundation that keeps us together' than 'we must rule the entire world', much like how Gaddafi used Islam as a common cultural foundation for what was, in many regards, a socialist system without the state-enforced atheism.

Thrax = His ZH background once described him as a Jordanian immunologist who disappeared in a terrorist ghetto in Cairo. As far as we're concerned, he's basically just an insane guy with strange talents and a highly eccentric personality who doesn't abide to any real ideology, not even Deathstrike's. One of our updates mentioned that he became the prime target of the American ZH-era war effort primarily because his bio weapons programme was somehow linked to Iran, suggesting that he actually sold his services to the highest bidder which, for most of the time, merely happened to be the GLA.

Kassad = A North African tribal warlord. His world view is probably closer to that of the GLA, but that obviously didn't stop him from betraying the organisation twice whenever things got hairy, which suggests that he had common ideological ground, but differing opinions in regards to leadership, operations and - a point which may also be quite important - the spoils of war, as with many tribal conflicts.

Juhziz = Due to his Middle Eastern focus, it can be assumed that his motivations are more anti-American (and possibly anti-Israeli) than anti-Chinese, suggesting that he was either in it to support the Palestinians or because he had a fundamentalist background. In any case, he was certainly fanatical enough to go out in a nuclear suicide attack at the end of the insurrection.

Yusuuf = One of the earliest supporters of the original GLA. His background identifies him as a Saudi cleric and makes explicit references to his fundamentalist motivations. He's primarily anti-Western and staunchly traditional to the point of not even using the GLA's current day tank because it was originally British. His fellowship, while somewhat dimished now that Sulaymaan lowered the standards for 'membership' even further, is still a distinct faction within the GLA, possibly with a dynamic of its own.

Ibrahiim = He is unique in that he is actually a native westerner himself (from France) and even though he may possibly have a North African cultural background, his primary motivation appears to be anti-capitalism and anti-imperialism, kind of like an even dirtier, non-romanticised version of Cordis Die from Black Ops 2. He joined the GLA because he regards them as the only ones that can stand up to the decadent super powers he despises (all of whom, even China and Russia, are in some way capitalist by now), which may also be reinforced by socialist/communist conceptions of internationalism. The idea of a world revolution would certainly appeal to him and any references to religion from his side are, at best, superficial.

Sulaymaan = Fought against the Americans during the ongoing Iraqi insurgency. Served as a prolific arms supplier, then second-in-command to Deathstrike during the first war. After he took over the GLA, he decided to abandon the shapeless, restless and homeless nature of the original GLA in favour of establishing a GLA-controlled refuge territory in Africa which would be open to literally ANYONE that does not represent the authority of a state, like a darker version of Outer Heaven from Metal Gear. Under Deathstrike, the GLA tried to free individual, existing countries from foreign influence one by one (theoretically). Under Sulaymaan, the GLA encourages people to abandon such countries and start over again in the first actual GLA 'nation' which managed to expand its territory in Africa by driving the Russians out of their client states.

[Shiro]

Well, they teamed up with the USA because they thought that Thrax' strains of bio-chemical weaponry went too far, even for GLA standards. Did you know that Thrax' infantry in that mission were absolutely immune to bio-chemical, nuclear and microwave weapons?

[Shockwavelover84]

Ironside: Didn't exist.

Why not just add a tidbit of trivia referencing Ironside somewhere? I know that Shockwave has no 'plot' so to speak, but it doesn't mean that Ironside has to be the 1 general who's excluded. Technically "Deathstrike" was never in the official ZH either, he was just known as "the new leader" and had no name mentioned.

[Shockwavelover84]

Actually Im guessing If I've picked up from MARS's writing style hes probably going to make something like erm...

Tie the fact that Leang had King raptors and USA tech....Maybe something to do with Granger and Townes, something that made townes go rouge...

I'd actually prefer if the team just referenced some of her technology from Shockwave instead. (Even in Shockwave she still had a 'diverse' variety of units - quite a few Russian units for example, so this fits the plot tibit they already have mentioning her). Shockwave may have had no plot, but a few tidbits referencing some of the units or technology in the ROTR plot would be a lot better than just completely ignoring it.

I mean in ZH were Leang was the "boss General" she also had suicide terrorists in her 'arsenal', but putting that into the plot would just be silly.

[Cobretti]

I'd actually prefer if the team just referenced some of her technology from Shockwave instead. (Even in Shockwave she still had a 'diverse' variety of units - quite a few Russian units for example, so this fits the plot tibit they already have mentioning her). Shockwave may have had no plot, but a few tidbits referencing some of the units or technology in the ROTR plot would be a lot better than just completely ignoring it.

I mean in ZH were Leang was the "boss General" she also had suicide terrorists in her 'arsenal', but putting that into the plot would just be silly.

The thing is, Shockwave isn't considered to be a predecessor of RoTR, and it'd leave the tricky question of where all the advanced tech from the Shockwave went. Even if they were just early examples in field testing surely most of them would be more common by the time RoTR takes place. Personally I just consider the stuff that was cut from the rushed release of ZH canon such as the original boss generals and the units/features that were cut (i.e. the stuff you can find in ProGen and mods of that like).

[MARS]

^ Right and honestly, achknowledging the existence of -teleportation tech- opens up an entirely new can of worms. You can stretch the handwave of budget cuts to explain away the laser tanks but this'd be the greatest breakthrough in physics of the entire century. Even if we said that they axed it due to austerity measures, it'd lead major implications in-universe. Even if it was deemed unsafe or expensive, it'd raise the question as to why the US don't teleport a bunch of drones directly into the Kremlin, why NASA hasn't teleported a team of astronauts to the Moon/Mars etc.

[Shockwavelover84]

^ Right and honestly, achknowledging the existence of -teleportation tech- opens up an entirely new can of worms. You can stretch the handwave of budget cuts to explain away the laser tanks but this'd be the greatest breakthrough in physics of the entire century. Even if we said that they axed it due to austerity measures, it'd lead major implications in-universe. Even if it was deemed unsafe or expensive, it'd raise the question as to why the US don't teleport a bunch of drones directly into the Kremlin, why NASA hasn't teleported a team of astronauts to the Moon/Mars etc.

Project could have worked in theory, but was only tested once, at a budget of over $1,000,000,000 for the single "Enforcer" prototype produced. And instead of successfully telephoning anyone it just evaporated the Enforcer tank, presumably killing the pilot inside. Along with $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer's money.

This along with the "Aurora scandal" led to Alexander's resignation. Though it's not officially acknowledged, this rumor has been spread by conspiracy theorists on the internet.

-

Just a thought for some trivia.

The thing is, Shockwave isn't considered to be a predecessor of RoTR, and it'd leave the tricky question of where all the advanced tech from the Shockwave went. Even if they were just early examples in field testing surely most of them would be more common by the time RoTR takes place. Personally I just consider the stuff that was cut from the rushed release of ZH canon such as the original boss generals and the units/features that were cut (i.e. the stuff you can find in ProGen and mods of that like).

Other than maybe the Enforcer tank, there wasn't really any specific tech in SHW though that was 'way more advanced' than stuff you see in ROTR. I suppose some of the factions like Nuke, Laser, and Super Weapon had the 'flashier' stuff in greater quantity, but the tech itself wasn't really anymore futuristic.

Sure Townes had all kinds of laser weapons, as well as railguns. But there's still a Laser Avenger in ROTR, and I believe Aleksandr will get a railgun tank. The Plasma weapons for Alexander, or Seismic weapons for Leang aren't really that much more 'farfetched' than Russia's Tesla weapons. Nuke General may have had all kinds of Nuke-crazy weapons, but they weren't really much more over the top than what China uses in ROTR - Nuclear artillery, nuclear mortars, nuclear powered tanks, helicopters that fire tactical nukes - not to mention Europe's neutron weapons.

If anything I'd say the Manticore or the Venom are probably more futuristic in design than anything in SHW, sans the Enforcer.

---

Also just because they 'have the tech' doesn't necessarily mean it'll be commonplace 20 years from now.

Example - the US tested the X-15, one the world's first manned hypersonic aircraft back in 1959 (54 years ago) - but in 2013, hypersonic fighter planes or bombers still aren't in common use (or in use at all).



This post has been edited by Shockwavelover84: 20 May 2013, 6:49

[Shockwavelover84]

As far as Ironside goes, if it were me I'd just briefly acknowledge him as having taken part in one of the missions, rather than just have him be the 1 General who's existence isn't acknowledged. Ex. In one of the vGenerals USA missions, the American ground forces get bogged down on a snowy mountain and have to retreat - perhaps Ironside was commanding that unit, and ended up resigned over the debacle.

Or as another idea, perhaps it was Ironside who was sent in to deal with the unnamed "rouge Chinese General" who joined forces with the GLA. I found the scenario in that mission pretty interesting, so it would be very cool if the team referenced that event in one of the trivia updates, and elaborated a little bit more on the rouge Generals' motive, or how it affected US/Chinese relations, etc - if they did this they could also use it as an opportunity to briefly mention Ironside as well.

Leang: Discharged over 'one particularly excessive public scandal'

Hm so was Leang the "rouge General" who joined with the GLA? Well actually the mission did mention the general as a "he" so I'm not entirely sure.

This post has been edited by Shockwavelover84: 20 May 2013, 7:03

[Joe Kidd]

^I think i read in the lore somwhere that china placed higher control on their tactical nukes(hence the GP)due to the 'rogue generals incedent'

And if leang joined up with the GLA she'd have been shot for treason

[(USA)Bruce]

Leeang has no reason to join the GLA.....She was obviously the strongest woman on the planet, I'd like to hear more about her downfall....

As for Ironside.....Guys he doesnt exist...give it a rest.We already (probably) have plans about the rouge general and stuff as well.
Personally when I finish lovers devide part 2 Im going to hint on that reffrence, hopefully it gets the green light....

[Shockwavelover84]

Leeang has no reason to join the GLA.....She was obviously the strongest woman on the planet, I'd like to hear more about her downfall....

As for Ironside.....Guys he doesnt exist...give it a rest.We already (probably) have plans about the rouge general and stuff as well.
Personally when I finish lovers devide part 2 Im going to hint on that reffrence, hopefully it gets the green light....

Ultimately it doesn't make a huge difference - I just don't see why the team'd be adamant about Ironside not existing in the story, even just as a passing reference.

The Ironside does not officially part of ZH.

I agree, though if you want to get technical then the only Generals who were part of the plot were Kassad, Thrax, and the "GLA leader" (never officially named 'Deathstrike'). None of the others got mentioned in the actual campaign at all.

Not gonna argue here, I was just pointing it out.

This post has been edited by Shockwavelover84: 20 May 2013, 10:04

[SpiralSpectre]

Other than maybe the Enforcer tank, there wasn't really any specific tech in SHW though that was 'way more advanced' than stuff you see in ROTR. I suppose some of the factions like Nuke, Laser, and Super Weapon had the 'flashier' stuff in greater quantity, but the tech itself wasn't really anymore futuristic.

Sure Townes had all kinds of laser weapons, as well as railguns. But there's still a Laser Avenger in ROTR, and I believe Aleksandr will get a railgun tank. The Plasma weapons for Alexander, or Seismic weapons for Leang aren't really that much more 'farfetched' than Russia's Tesla weapons. Nuke General may have had all kinds of Nuke-crazy weapons, but they weren't really much more over the top than what China uses in ROTR - Nuclear artillery, nuclear mortars, nuclear powered tanks, helicopters that fire tactical nukes - not to mention Europe's neutron weapons.

If anything I'd say the Manticore or the Venom are probably more futuristic in design than anything in SHW, sans the Enforcer.

---

Also just because they 'have the tech' doesn't necessarily mean it'll be commonplace 20 years from now.

I hate quoting a post just to say I totally agree, but I would die a bit inside if I don't say I totally agree with this.

Hm so was Leang the "rouge General" who joined with the GLA? Well actually the mission did mention the general as a "he" so I'm not entirely sure.

A woman joining the GLA as the rouge general? GLA would bury her neck deep and stone her to death if they were in a good mood.

Leeang has no reason to join the GLA.....She was obviously the strongest woman on the planet, I'd like to hear more about her downfall....

Technically according to ROTR lore Leang was some, crazy, eccentric lady who made a bunch of mish-mashed prototypes and obtained a bunch of stolen techs but didn't manage to produce anything practical or functional. Maybe that doesn't completely agree with ZH storyline but as far as ROTR is concerned Leang definitely wasn't the strongest woman on the planet, at least I sure hope not.

[__CrUsHeR]

Leeang has no reason to join the GLA.....She was obviously the strongest woman on the planet, I'd like to hear more about her downfall....

You are forgetting the Alexis and his arsenal of mass destruction - this woman possibly had under his control the key to start the apocalypse - it would be as a 'Pandora' from Greek mythology in modern times.