A Sad Farewell To The Coolest Fighter Jet Of All Time Options

[Zeke]

http://kotaku.com/a-sad-farewell-to-the-co...time-1374187357

Anyone who grew up watching cartoons, or playing video games, or just taking an interest in large, expensive vehicles will be saddened to hear today that the US military has indicated the end is nigh for the fabled A-10 Warthog.

This post has been edited by Zeke: 25 Sep 2013, 3:59

[GDIZOCOM]

Too soon

This jet will be remembered for being a reliable special power in Generals and as one of the scariest killstreaks in Black Ops 2 for me

[CheoRock]

This will affect ROTR? I hope, cuz would be nice if the devs replace the A-10s of the GP, for some more modern aircraft...

[Zeke]

This will affect ROTR? I hope, cuz would be nice if the devs replace the A-10s of the GP, for some more modern aircraft...

Since they kept the F117, I doubt it...

[CheoRock]

Since they kept the F117, I doubt it...

Oh, I forget those... But sincerely, I can't even imagine the Nighthawks making a run, shooting and firing rockets like hell just like the A-10...

[MARS]

Here's hoping they're gonna mothball the good ol' Warthog in the same way as they did with the F-117 from what I've read; keep them in good condition so that they can be brought back and overhauled if the need arises. I still find it a damn shame to see this iconic monster of an aircraft, this all American Stuka, retired in favour of another generic multirole fighter with an optional ground attack loadout. Say what you will about stealth, electronics and all that fancy network centric bullshit, but the Lightning II will never match the frightening reputation of that flying 30mm hellraiser that rips through everything like a fucking laser beam and just won't die no matter how hard you hit it. Having a plane that sends your enemies fleeing before you at the mere mention of its presence is an advantage that the F-35 and F-22 are yet to achieve in a long time.

[wb21]

Back in the Warthog's early years in the 80's, the folks thought that it was gonna be a slow sitting duck in actual combat with Shilkas, Strelas, Osas, and Tunguskas lying around in the battlefield not to mention MiGs, so they planned to replace it with a dedicated CAS version of the F-16. But when Desert Storm came, the Warthog did a good job in taking out ground targets that it enough to convice the Air Force to keep the Hog, and the attack F-16 idea eventually fizzled.

Now with budget cuts within the AF, it's pretty understandable that the end times for the A-10 is getting premature and so is the idea of other dedicated combat platforms when that overly expensive tacticool jack-of-all-trade jet is all in their minds...although it would be good if plans for the Hog's transfer to the Army pushes through.

An Air Force plan to cut the A-10 doesn’t come as a surprise, said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst with the Virginia-based Teal Group. He said the active service has been trying to kill off the platform for years. But while congressional pressure has saved the planes in the past, budget realities may make cuts realistic for the first time.

“These are strange and dangerous times budgetarily, which means the Air Force might finally get their way,� Aboulafia said. He pointed out that the A-10 is not particularly useful for either counterinsurgency actions or for the so-called pivot to Asia, leaving the platform strategically on the outside looking in.

“If there were any plans to fight a land war, this would not be good news. But everything about the budget implies they have stepped away from land wars,� he said. “It’s a good way for the Air Force to save cash and declare victory in a turf war.�

The Air Combat Command statement said, “In the past, the Air Force has made proposals to reduce force structure to a point that will allow us to sustain a smaller but still highly capable combat-ready force while modernizing the fleet to meet future challenges. We continue to work within the Department of Defense and with Congress to determine the right number and types of aircraft required to meet current and future defense needs.�

Air Force officials have stated publicly that the F-35 isn’t going to be able to precisely duplicate the A-10’s missions. But they have reiterated that they need multi-role aircraft.

Grant said if the F-35 is called to do combat search and rescue, it will do so. And it will have updated sensors such as the 360 degree distributed aperture infrared system to carry out the mission. Most of these new sensors can’t be fitted onto A-10s.

“The sensor and survivability advantages of the F-35 are pretty profound,� she said.

The A-10 will also not have the range of an F-35. The Warthog was designed for short-range missions, she pointed out.

More:
http://www.defensenews.com/article/2013091...KC-10-10-Fleets
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/arc...hesEndGame.aspx

[Dangerman]

As much as the Warthog is awesome, it does not have any use in combat any more and is ineffective for High and low intensity operations. Drones work better for CAS for COIN (before anyone says about the Drones killing hundreds children, I am very suspicious of that claim) as they do not need to use too much PGMs against Insurgents (the Taliban IIRC consider the ISAF's lower amount of PGMs more dangerous than the higher amount of aerial ordnance that the Soviets used on the Mujahideen) and what not but also anything that would require the US to send thousands of troops and vehicles and expects to loose troops would highly likely mean that opponent has very capable AA systems and knows how to man it requiring stealth aircraft and downed aircraft can mean pilots dying which are not cheap at all.

This post has been edited by dangerman1337: 25 Sep 2013, 13:33

[The_Hunter]

something interesting the head designer of the F-16 and A-10 has to say about the F-35

[Pepo]

A multirole figther would never(or rarely)be better at a task than a specific aircraft.the a-10 is a beast,one of my favourite aircrafts,while the f-35 is a cheaper raptor that doesn't have supersonic speed.the A-10 also can survive a lot of punish and his really hard to take it down,while the f-35 is much more vulnerable to ground fire.finally the A-10 can carry much more weapons than the ligthing because it doesn't need an internal bay to keep it stealthed(an still this planes can be still detected

I hope that they make a worthy replacement or keep it in service.althougth they can't be use in counter insurgency mission like a drone,the a-10 is more effective in conventional wars than a drone(seriously a drone can be easily destroyed with a man pad)

[Cobretti]

something interesting the head designer of the F-16 and A-10 has to say about the F-35

I'd take what he has to say with a big grain of salt, Pierre Sprey worked for Boeing on their JSF program, the company that lost the F-35 contract to Lockheed Martin. Of course he's going to crap on the F-35. He's a good aeronautical designer but remember, this is the guy who thought that the F-16 shouldn't have radar and said the same stuff about the F-16 as he is about the F-35 after he didn't get his way. It should be noted that the pilots who have flown the F-35 have spoken well of its capabilities. Remember, the F-16, F-15, and F-22 all went through the same criticism but no one can say the same with the straight face now.




This isn't the first time they've considered mothballing the A-10, usually the USAF threatens to mothball them in an attempt to prevent budget cuts. That said, there is a proposal to convert the A-10s into UCAVs. Perhaps this is what happened to the A-10 in the ROTR universe. Makes sense since the F-35 isn't best suited for close in CAS missions, and the Air Force has even said as such. I expect the A-10 to be phased out by some sort of UCAV in any event.

A multirole figther would never(or rarely)be better at a task than a specific aircraft.the a-10 is a beast,one of my favourite aircrafts,while the f-35 is a cheaper raptor that doesn't have supersonic speed.the A-10 also can survive a lot of punish and his really hard to take it down,while the f-35 is much more vulnerable to ground fire.finally the A-10 can carry much more weapons than the ligthing because it doesn't need an internal bay to keep it stealthed(an still this planes can be still detected

The F-35 is capable of supersonic speed; I think you mean supercruise, which the F-35 is capable of for short distances. The F-35 actually has a pretty impressive combat load if you use Small Diameter Bombs and those new Barracuda missiles that are in development (Sidewinder sized AIM-120s). The F-35 is also capable of mounting the Enclosed Weapons Pod that is designed for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. It's a stealthy pod that can contain various munitions that can be mounted on a fighter jet's hardpoint.

[Nemanja]

Wait...They are not retiring it now ? It is like in 2028...
Am I missing something ?
And no...Coolest aircraft ever was F-14,even without thinking of Top Gun,
hope Iran will by year 2045 made their first reverse engineered copy of it.

[Pepo]

Der krieg:haha that picture was funny .still about the f-35:
-the speed.althrougth is much more faster than an a-10 or a harrier,it is slower than others figthers.the F-35 can achieve a limited supercruise of Mach 1.2 for 150 miles while there are other figthers that reach mach 2.
-the f-35 is not stealthed.it just have a lower radar crooss section that make it harder to see.and when it shoot a missile or carry external hardpoint,is has visible has any other aircraft
-the plane it is also more vulnerable to damage because to obtain the low cross section,they need to make the plane desing much more complex and much harder to fly .most figthers jets ,that doesn't have the so called stealth,have better chances of surviving a hit

Still until the f-35 actually figths,we wouldn't be sure of how it performs

[Shiro]

Well, I can understand why they phase out the A-10, considering they literally cannot build any new aircraft so of course at some point they would have to be replaced. On the other hand, it's a sad day to see such an iconic flying brick armed with a visual laser cannon to go the way everything must, it feels too soon. At least the days where we will order the A-10 to get rid of GLA Command Centres will continue.

[Cobretti]

Der krieg:haha that picture was funny .still about the f-35:
-the speed.althrougth is much more faster than an a-10 or a harrier,it is slower than others figthers.the F-35 can achieve a limited supercruise of Mach 1.2 for 150 miles while there are other figthers that reach mach 2.
-the f-35 is not stealthed.it just have a lower radar crooss section that make it harder to see.and when it shoot a missile or carry external hardpoint,is has visible has any other aircraft
-the plane it is also more vulnerable to damage because to obtain the low cross section,they need to make the plane desing much more complex and much harder to fly .most figthers jets ,that doesn't have the so called stealth,have better chances of surviving a hit

Still until the f-35 actually figths,we wouldn't be sure of how it performs

The F-35 is capable of Mach 2 when using afterburners. There are very few aircraft that can supercruise at that speed for long, as far as I recall.

The F-35 has a smaller radar signature than any combat aircraft save for the F-22.

Pretty much every aircraft except for CAS designs such as the A-10 and Su-25 are very vulnerable to damage due to weight issues. They're not supposed to be hit in the first place.

Most of the disputes about the F-35's capabilities are barely valid, what is valid is the cost of the damn thing (albeit many sources say that the cost is dropping a fair bit as of late). I'm of the opinion that Sec. of Defense Robert Gates was a complete retard by canning F-22 procurement in favor of the Air Force buying more F-35s (for what it's worth Lockheed-Martin is keeping the tooling of the F-22 in case they ever need to build more). Rumor has it that the F-35 A and C will be capable of mounting laser weapons, maybe that's why its costing so much...

[Pepo]

lasers?wasn't the airbone laser project(the boeing with a laser)cancelled because the laser weaponary was very limited?

also i still think that the a 10 upgraded is more usefull in anti tank warfare than the f-35

[Cobretti]

Lockheed Martin is working on their own laser program, and scaled down versions of the Airborne Laser are being tested. I recall the laser is extremely effective at destroying aircraft and missiles, but it didn't have the range the DoD was looking for. The original concept called for a laser that was capable of destroying an ICBM on the launch pad from outside enemy airspace, and the YAL-1 was incapable of doing so at the range requested. However, lasers are still being developed as anti-missile defense/anti-aircraft/anti-satellite weapons.

I recall hearing that the Air Force wasn't going to use the F-35 as an A-10 replacement. I think some sort of UAV would most likely be it, if not the A-10 airframes converted into UCAVs that I mentioned earlier.

[Serialkillerwhal...]

They're trying to take away the A-10?
This isn't the first time they tried.

[wb21]

Most of the disputes about the F-35's capabilities are barely valid, what is valid is the cost of the damn thing (albeit many sources say that the cost is dropping a fair bit as of late). I'm of the opinion that Sec. of Defense Robert Gates was a complete retard by canning F-22 procurement in favor of the Air Force buying more F-35s (for what it's worth Lockheed-Martin is keeping the tooling of the F-22 in case they ever need to build more). Rumor has it that the F-35 A and C will be capable of mounting laser weapons, maybe that's why its costing so much...

Northrop Grumman is making a laser-based IRCM system for the F-35 based on their AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM made for larger aircraft (not sure about offensive laser systems though).

This post has been edited by D' WRTHBRNGR: 26 Sep 2013, 9:06

[Casojin]

It is quite certain that a winged gun would fade out in the face of electronic age and economic problem.
The nature of war has also changed from direct confrontation to insurgency.
And that means much less big targets for the flying guns.
With this situation, multi-role platform is more cost-effective.

I really love the A-10, but its decommission is certainty.

This post has been edited by Casojin: 27 Sep 2013, 4:02

[MARS]

The nature of war has also changed from direct confrontation to insurgency.

And yet, military doctrine has to think beyond the present. Depending on the course of the global economy and the geo-political situation, it may very well change back from counter-insurgency to direct confrontation between states or blocs at some point in the future.

[Serialkillerwhal...]

With the military being the one part of the budget obama can axe without protest from his voter base no matter how large the amount cut, i'm surprised he didn't just disband the whole damned thing.

[n5p29]

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/09...-over-a-10.html

[Die Hindenburg]

Some words:
Drones will probally replace all of that, it will take a while but when AI is cheap enough, many types of Aircraft could be AI guided.

I find it funny that still many games think that pilots still are in the future of aircraft combat.

[MARS]

Maybe it's because some people just don't like the idea of dehumanising air combat because having an all-AI air force might tempt countries into using it more liberally. After all, you don't put any of your own people's lifes at stake anymore, so you might as well use those UCAVs whenever some other country just mildly annoys you. If they can't afford any fancy drones and still have to send humans to fight, but that's their problem of course. Point is, removing the human element opens a wide range of moral grey areas and a drone will never testify in front of an investigation committee either.

Works of fiction centre around humans, so you're gonna find future-themed games, movies, novels, etc. depicting future aircraft manned by pilots because drones don't make for interesting characters.