Kashtan 300 DPS, SOLVED Options

[Grim Tuesday]

I have checked INI and from basic formula calculated that kashtan should deal 300 DPS to ground. (delay between shots 20 ms, primary damage 6). But in game testing (thx Soraz) the damage was similar to gattling cannon, which should have only ~90 DPS. So where is the catch?

This post has been edited by Grim Tuesday: 7 Sep 2015, 8:33

[Serialkillerwhal...]

Gattling weapons have a spin up bonus

IIRC they do up to triple damage once fully spun up, so it's not much of a difference, and less so when chain guns exist.

This post has been edited by Serialkillerwhale: 3 Aug 2015, 1:00

[Shiro]

Gatts deal 90 DPS when on full spin. (unupgraded, that is).

[XAOC-RU-]

Gatts deal 90 DPS when on full spin. (unupgraded, that is).

If gatts will do only 90 DPS on full spin they will lose much damage to kashtans which deal 300 DPS. Maybe you want to say not on full spin
On full spin they do triple damage 90x3=270 DPS (kashtan do 300 DPS). More sound like a true

[Shiro]

If gatts will do only 90 DPS on full spin they will lose much damage to kashtans which deal 300 DPS. Maybe you want to say not on full spin
On full spin they do triple damage 90x3=270 DPS (kashtan do 300 DPS). More sound like a true

I wonder if you merely glanced at what I said, but here is some code to clear this (irrelevant bits removed):

CODE

Weapon KashtanChainGunWeapon_Ground
  PrimaryDamage         = 6.0
  PrimaryDamageRadius   = 2.0
  ScatterRadius         = 5.0
  DamageType            = GATTLING
  DeathType             = NORMAL
  DelayBetweenShots     = 20
End

6 damage every 20ms = 300 DPS

CODE

Weapon GattlingBuildingGun
  PrimaryDamage         = 10.0
  PrimaryDamageRadius   = 1.0
  AttackRange           = 225.0
  DamageType            = Gattling
  DeathType             = NORMAL
  WeaponSpeed           = 9999.0
  DelayBetweenShots     = 360
  ContinuousFireOne     = 3
  ContinuousFireTwo     = 8
  ContinuousFireCoast   = 2000
  WeaponBonus           = CONTINUOUS_FIRE_MEAN RATE_OF_FIRE 200%
  WeaponBonus           = CONTINUOUS_FIRE_FAST RATE_OF_FIRE 300%
  WeaponBonus           = PLAYER_UPGRADE DAMAGE 125%
End

10 damage every 360ms = 27.8 DPS normal, *3 = 83.4 DPS on max speed

[Knjaz.]

Since nobody mentioned it yet.

SAGE calculates ROF in 33ms "steps".

Which means, minimum possible DBS is 33.
DBS of 34-66 equals DBS of 66.
DBS of 67-99 equals DBS of 99.
DBS of 100 that you often see in units equals that of 132. that's also why units with such DBS, after getting very slight ROF bonuses, suddenly become much stronger.

Though, that still puts Kashtan at 180.
But if you combine the continuous fire 1 and continuous fire 2 (but they shouldn't stack, right?), you get around 101 dps. (taking into account those 33ms steps I described above).

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 3 Aug 2015, 8:48

[XAOC-RU-]

I wonder if you merely glanced at what I said, but here is some code to clear this (irrelevant bits removed):

CODE

Weapon KashtanChainGunWeapon_Ground
  PrimaryDamage         = 6.0
  PrimaryDamageRadius   = 2.0
  ScatterRadius         = 5.0
  DamageType            = GATTLING
  DeathType             = NORMAL
  DelayBetweenShots     = 20
End

6 damage every 20ms = 300 DPS

CODE

Weapon GattlingBuildingGun
  PrimaryDamage         = 10.0
  PrimaryDamageRadius   = 1.0
  AttackRange           = 225.0
  DamageType            = Gattling
  DeathType             = NORMAL
  WeaponSpeed           = 9999.0
  DelayBetweenShots     = 360
  ContinuousFireOne     = 3
  ContinuousFireTwo     = 8
  ContinuousFireCoast   = 2000
  WeaponBonus           = CONTINUOUS_FIRE_MEAN RATE_OF_FIRE 200%
  WeaponBonus           = CONTINUOUS_FIRE_FAST RATE_OF_FIRE 300%
  WeaponBonus           = PLAYER_UPGRADE DAMAGE 125%
End

10 damage every 360ms = 27.8 DPS normal, *3 = 83.4 DPS on max speed

Ok you are right. Sorry . But in that case OPoster didn't receive an answer on his question from your previous posts. The question was that why is Gattling cannon and Kashtan have so difference in DPS in theory (90 DPS vs 300 DPS) but in fact their deal equal damage how he said? Why? Non you non other guy didn't anwer on main question. Besides he already write that gattling deal 90 DPS so I dont understand why you start to explain how gattling works. Thats confused me thats why I post above this suggestion about their more equal DPS.

[XAOC-RU-]

Since nobody mentioned it yet.

SAGE calculates ROF in 33ms "steps".

Which means, minimum possible DBS is 33.
DBS of 34-66 equals DBS of 66.
DBS of 67-99 equals DBS of 99.
DBS of 100 that you often see in units equals that of 132. that's also why units with such DBS, after getting very slight ROF bonuses, suddenly become much stronger.

It's so hard to understand. Can you explain what DBS mean? Damage B.... Second? ANd how it's calculates increasing rate of fire.

If we watch on the code above we can see that the first 3 shots goes with 360ms interval. Then next 5 shots up to 8 shot with 200% increase. And the next shot goes with max rate of fire (300% of normal). That mean cont shot goes with 360/3=120ms interval. Am I right?

[XAOC-RU-]

Since nobody mentioned it yet.

SAGE calculates ROF in 33ms "steps".

Which means, minimum possible DBS is 33.
DBS of 34-66 equals DBS of 66.
DBS of 67-99 equals DBS of 99.
DBS of 100 that you often see in units equals that of 132. that's also why units with such DBS, after getting very slight ROF bonuses, suddenly become much stronger.

Though, that still puts Kashtan at 180.
But if you combine the continuous fire 1 and continuous fire 2 (but they shouldn't stack, right?), you get around 101 dps. (taking into account those 33ms steps I described above).

Ok if you right about that real Kashtan ROF is 33ms not 20ms, why THe Hunter or other dev. team guy make that unit with such stats? Any reason? Why just dont put Kashtan's ROF in 33 ms?

[Knjaz.]

It's so hard to understand. Can you explain what DBS mean? Damage B.... Second? ANd how it's calculates increasing rate of fire.

If we watch on the code above we can see that the first 3 shots goes with 360ms interval. Then next 5 shots up to 8 shot with 200% increase. And the next shot goes with max rate of fire (300% of normal). That mean cont shot goes with 360/3=120ms interval. Am I right?

DelayBetweenShots

360/3 = 120.
Which equals next 33ms "step", i.e. 132.

Meh, ru-version of the post above, everyone else don't pay attention.
Все интервалы между выстрелами считаются движком игры в "шагах", равных 33 миллисекундам, с округлением в большую сторону.
Если у юнита интервал 20, он округлится до 33. Если интервал 34, он округлится до следующего "шага", 66 миллисекунд.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 3 Aug 2015, 8:59

[Grim Tuesday]

So with the new formula the Kashtan still has double damage of gattling cannon. The mystery continues.

[XAOC-RU-]

DelayBetweenShots

360/3 = 120.
Which equals next 33ms "step", i.e. 132.

Meh, ru-version of the post above, everyone else don't pay attention.
Все интервалы между выстрелами считаются движком игры в "шагах", равных 33 миллисекундам, с округлением в большую сторону.
Если у юнита интервал 20, он округлится до 33. Если интервал 34, он округлится до следующего "шага", 66 миллисекунд.

Ok thx for translate. But this is create new question why dev. team made such unit like Kashtan? DBS cannot be lower than 33 ms. (Kashtan DBS 20ms but in fact it fires with 33ms interval)

This post has been edited by XAOC-RU-: 3 Aug 2015, 9:14

[XAOC-RU-]

So with the new formula the Kashtan still has double damage of gattling cannon. The mystery continues.

well thats can explain only if you multiplies gattling cannon spin twice. 1st in 200% and then 300% (in 6 times)

360/2 for 1st bonus=180ms. And then 180/3=60ms or 66ms if be correct

This post has been edited by XAOC-RU-: 3 Aug 2015, 9:21

[Grim Tuesday]

I beg you SAGE God. Show us the truth.

What's wrong with the DPS?

[mcompany]

well thats can explain only if you multiplies gattling cannon spin twice. 1st in 200% and then 300% (in 6 times)

360/2 for 1st bonus=180ms. And then 180/3=60ms or 66ms if be correct

If that is correct, full speed gattling is 151 DBS, kashtan is 180

This post has been edited by mcompany: 4 Aug 2015, 2:10

[XAOC-RU-]

If that is correct, full speed gattling is 151 DBS, kashtan is 180

I not say that they DPS must be equal. Gattling do less damage then kashtan before gattling upgrade which gives him advantage compare to kashtan (222 DPS). The main question was about great in theory difference between them. We are describe that is no much difference between them. I'm just interest how the OPoster compare their DPS on which unit? Because if he compare them on tank then I can explain why he didn't see any difference because tank armor very resistanse to gattling damage and there will be minimal differense from which def. turret he destroyed

This post has been edited by XAOC-RU-: 4 Aug 2015, 5:04

[Grim Tuesday]

If that is correct, full speed gattling is 151 DBS, kashtan is 180

I am afraid this is not how you calculate the damage. The 300% ROF bonus should be applied on the basic DBS so the result is 360 / 3 = 120.

So the final DPS of gattling cannon is around 90. Which means that kashtan has still twice as much damage.

The in game testing tells different story.

This post has been edited by Grim Tuesday: 4 Aug 2015, 8:06

[Grim Tuesday]

We need your help The_Hunter. Only YOU can solve the mystery!!!

This post has been edited by Grim Tuesday: 4 Aug 2015, 13:40

[Scud]

We need your help The_Hunter. Only YOU can solve the mystery!!!

Should I call an exorcist?

[The_Hunter]

A Kasthan is better than a Gattling Cannon and Knjaz allready explained nicely how it works what do you need me for ?

[Grim Tuesday]

A Kasthan is better than a Gattling Cannon and Knjaz allready explained how it works what do you need me for ?

I have already updated the damage according to knjaz formula and kashtan should have twice as much DPS as gattling has. But according to Soraz testing the Kashtan DPS is somewhere around ~120 (when actually it should have 184).

[The_Hunter]

and this is important why ?

[Grim Tuesday]

and this is important why ?

Because nobody won't be able to predict the final DPS of unit until he will test it actually in game. Which ruin my statistics...

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Well, all i know is that you need 1 tank to kill both the turret and the dozer if theyre on their own, so im happy

[Hanfield]

Because nobody won't be able to predict the final DPS of unit until he will test it actually in game. Which ruin my statistics...

DPS vs:

Infantry, light vehicles, helis: GOOD :-DDDDD
Everything else: BAD DDDDD-:

That's the only things that are ought to be kept in mind.



This post has been edited by Hanfield: 5 Aug 2015, 0:43