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Modern electronic warfare
3rdShockArmy
post 5 Aug 2015, 23:11
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Not sure if this is a reliable military news outlet, or reliable at all for that matter. Just post your thoughts. Which country or a company or any other group or organization has gone furthest in this kind of technology? And, please, lets keep it beyond "my country is the best"-arguments.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/p...rfare/30913397/


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Die Hindenburg
post 6 Aug 2015, 3:52
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Chinese, russians, jews, muslims, mericans, anymous (the last one trumping the formers by lightyears in progress).
The europeans? No way, the european mafias are to busy stealing anything from european people, and the europeans are too busy keeping their non-criminal people under survialliance with drones, cameras and such while ignoring the real threats.
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3rdShockArmy
post 6 Aug 2015, 7:28
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QUOTE (Die Hindenburg @ 6 Aug 2015, 4:52) *
Chinese, russians, jews, muslims, mericans, anymous (the last one trumping the formers by lightyears in progress).
The europeans? No way, the european mafias are to busy stealing anything from european people, and the europeans are too busy keeping their non-criminal people under survialliance with drones, cameras and such while ignoring the real threats.


I would also put the Chinese and Russians as the most prominent in it. I'm not sure who's better, but they are the best in it, simply because Americans have gone furthest in advanced combat tech, and what better way to counter it, than electronic warfare.
As for the Europeans, lets not venture in their patriotic act-type policies. It's too close to politics.


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Svea Rike
post 6 Aug 2015, 8:01
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Just because the US have developed drones and stuff doesnt mean the Russians and Chinese have mastered electronic warfare. AFAIK the US Army has a whole dept. just for electronic warfare: Cyber warfare, active denial systems, directed-energy weapons, drones (which are electronic, if you want to get technical) and such. Us Europeans basically follow to whatever the US is doing, so we arent that much into it.

Also this probably should go into Databank. Not sure why almost everyone assumes General Chat is for everything...


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Sargeant Rho
post 6 Aug 2015, 10:09
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Well, apparently the AESA radar used by the F-22 and F-35 can literally detect enemy drones and missiles to death. I'm going to assume the CAPTOR AESA radar in the Typhoon can do the same.

It's fairly hard to tell which country has the best E-War, of for that matter, if there is a country with the best E-War, specially since so many projects are classified and outright not known to the public.


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3rdShockArmy
post 6 Aug 2015, 12:17
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QUOTE (Svea Rike @ 6 Aug 2015, 9:01) *
Also this probably should go into Databank. Not sure why almost everyone assumes General Chat is for everything...

Sorry 'bout that. I just reasoned that general kinda means everything.


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Knjaz.
post 16 Oct 2015, 7:57
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 6 Aug 2015, 1:11) *
Not sure if this is a reliable military news outlet, or reliable at all for that matter. Just post your thoughts. Which country or a company or any other group or organization has gone furthest in this kind of technology? And, please, lets keep it beyond "my country is the best"-arguments.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/p...rfare/30913397/


Well, as an example, Russian EW capabilities,according to both retired and serving military personnel, are second only to nuclear triad in secrecy level.Hence, no reliable public information of any significant value is available, and what is available should be questioned.

What is, sort of,known, is that MoD pays alot of attention to EW. Russia's strongest potential adversaries are heavily reliant on their communication networks on the battlefield for all kinds of tasks.


P.S. not a gravedigging, it was 3rd from the top.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 16 Oct 2015, 8:18
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__CrUsHeR
post 16 Oct 2015, 13:01
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Interesting parts of an article on modern electronic warfare of Russia in the East Ukrainian and Syria.

"The quality of the electronic warfare [EW] capability that Russians have employed in eastern Ukraine, this is not something you can create in the basement of your home," Hodges Told Defense News in March.

"The Russians have continued to move forward with their EW modernization. They have Demonstrated the ability to completely shut down everything the Ukrainians are using in terms of communications."

"Lacrosse/Onyx satellite positions are continually tracked by Russia. With this intelligence detail the Krasukha-4 can be programmed to engage in order to deny or disrupt Nato intelligence gathering."


"Of course, it would also be possible for NATO to jam the Russian surveillance radar, denying them of identification and positioning of Nato aircraft - but this would really ramp up the war of words with Vladimir Putin," Stupples Concludes, adding that Russia's results using the Krasukha-4 against Nato will help it sell the system to other Governments.

"We must also accept that the Krasukha-4 EW system is an essential part of the defence of Russian forces at the Latakia airfield in Syria and this must not be denied them."

Russia using electronic warfare to cloak its actions in Syria from Isis and Nato
Krasukha EW System


Apparently Russia is able to neutralize or interfere in all types of "conventional" electronic communications actions (cell phones, radios communicators, drones, radars, etc.) on a large scale (East Ukrainian and Syria currently).

In a hypothetical situation of electronic warfare against a member country of NATO can prove to be very different considering that use systems of counter-electronic warfare, radar and communication much more advanced. But Russian capabilities remain undeniably efficient in this segment.

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 16 Oct 2015, 18:49


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3rdShockArmy
post 16 Oct 2015, 18:11
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@Knjaz
Damn, I posted this ages ago. If someone showed me just the text, I wouldn't even recognize it. I don't mind the necro, thou. It's an interesting subject, more so because, as you said, it's practically impossible to draw a clear line between a reliable information and a conspiracy theory. I know that Russia inherited the extremely strict policies from the Soviet Union when it comes to about anything that has to do with military-worthy science (even during the drunk puppet Yeltsins' 90's).

@Crusher
Yeah. This is just one of the things that RotR takes in consideration (Blackout nods anyone). It all comes down to making counters to the counters of the counters... It would be interesting to have more reliable informations on this, but than again, anything that actually is a reliable information, means that the mentioned tech is replaced by somethin' far better, long ago.

This post has been edited by 3rdShockArmy: 17 Oct 2015, 16:30


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__CrUsHeR
post 17 Oct 2015, 0:47
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 16 Oct 2015, 14:11) *
@Crusher
Yeah. This is just one of the things that RotR takes in consideration (Blackout nods anyone). It all comes down to making counters to the counters of the counters... It would be interesting to have more reliable informations on this, but than again, anything that actually is a reliable information, means that the mentioned tech is replaced by somethin' far better, long ago.

What information do you need?


An interesting link about what is the electronic warfare and how the Krasukha-4 system function (Ukraine and Syria):

Russian military makes strides in electronic warfare

In short: ceases detection and recon capabilities of an aircraft, drone or missile at long distance; most aircrafts of the fourth and fifth generation have integrated navigation and guidance/targeting systems; this logic of modern warfare dates back to 80s - Cold War - and still is something new and is constantly expanding/upgrading.

The Joint Tactical Information Distribution System (JTIDS) is an example of this concept employed by NATO. The problem is that the western pilots and military technicians has become addicted to this technology considered advanced, and not practice more training or invest in an adequate logistics for a scenario where guided weapons or integrated navigation systems are not an option; like Russia can not compete technologically for financial reasons with the West it does the reverse game - it is much easier and cheaper - continues to invest in conventional weapons (unguided, or with capacity for ammunition or weapons unguided), and invest in training where pilots operate "blind" (without radar system, navigation or any other type of link platform), thus can generate powerful eletronic interference that cut the communications of major Western equipments.


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3rdShockArmy
post 17 Oct 2015, 18:06
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Good links, Crusher. I read RBTH, but mostly the Serbian version. I was referring more to some new tech, because this is, as you said, late 80s-early 90s technology (heavily upgraded of course, but still). I wouldn't say that Russia is far behind the West, when it comes to advanced combat/counter combat technology. In fact, I wouldn't say that they're behind at all. It's just that they don't use it at the same extent (they have just a few bases outside former Soviet Union). They're not in that much of a hurry to completely replace some of their older tech, simply because there are still some simpler, cheaper and generally more cost-effective interim solutions that give a similar/slightly less effective result. Just look at PAK FA program. You get the same result for an astronomically cheaper price. Look at the price of a Raptor and a price of a T-50, and there you have it. And we're not even going into specifics of the JSF program, which was to be a "cheaper" alternative for the F-22. And comparing an F-35 to T-50 is ridiculous.
I went a bit off-topic here, but the point is that you don't need a bunch of high-tech stuff, which is very complicated to service and maintain combat-ready, if there are still some simpler solutions, that aren't used to their fullest potential. The Western air-superiority style warfare is highly dependant on advanced integrated com-networks and using a relatively cheap counter to it would mean a lot to Russia in a potential conflict.

This post has been edited by 3rdShockArmy: 17 Oct 2015, 18:19


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__CrUsHeR
post 17 Oct 2015, 19:43
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^ Is exactly that; Russia and some eastern countries have a different approach to Western for war and apply to its military doctrine concepts that on a Western perspective make no sense, but from the perspective of them is something understandable due to several factors, ranging from the huge dimensions of Russia until its economic situation for example.


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3rdShockArmy
post 17 Oct 2015, 20:04
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Could you provide me with some more useful links? And not all of them have to be from credible sources. It's quite interesting to try to dig out a bit of truth from unreliable media. biggrin.gif Because, the MSM's so boring.

This post has been edited by 3rdShockArmy: 17 Oct 2015, 20:05


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__CrUsHeR
post 17 Oct 2015, 20:45
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 17 Oct 2015, 16:04) *
Could you provide me with some more useful links? And not all of them have to be from credible sources. It's quite interesting to try to dig out a bit of truth from unreliable media. biggrin.gif Because, the MSM's so boring.

Yes, I can, right now I'm with little time for it, but soon I will post other links.


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3rdShockArmy
post 17 Oct 2015, 21:04
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



Sure, man. Whenever you can. No rush. smile.gif


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