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DefinitelyNotHobbesy
If you've been following the progress of a recent robot experiment, you'd know that robots are lying, cheating, psychopaths. Enjoy this Popular Science article on exactly why they're going to be the cause of humanity's downfall!

The Story












I'm going to murder the first person that says "tl;dr"
Cobretti
"That's it man, game over man! Game over!" (Dammit, I can't find an embeddable version of the Terminator 2 opening on Youtube)
Shock
First, it is actually pretty awesome.

Second, humans have been lying ever since the beginning of existence, and now because robots can do it too, they are evil. Yeah sure.
Alias
I NEET YOOR KLOSE, YOOR BÜTS, UND YOOR MOTORZYKLE.
Pink_Supervisor
Is this sentience?
IonCharge
Tl;dr.... lol jk but that is quite cool... but i more concerned about them "mating" tongue.gif
Sargeant Rho
QUOTE (Shock @ 20 Aug 2009, 10:53) *
First, it is actually pretty awesome.

No, it is actually pretty awful. Robots were created to help mankind, and not to lie...

QUOTE (Shock @ 20 Aug 2009, 10:53) *
Second, humans have been lying ever since the beginning of existence, and now because robots can do it too, they are evil. Yeah sure.


That's different, because robots are firstly built to serve. And a lying mount-scrapmental doesn't exactely "serve" well. It is indeed a danger for humans.
Shock
If you want to limit robots to that, then they will never even get any close to sentience. Might as well scrap the Artificial Intelligence research, because mindless slaves can already be made.

We can already make robots that can do exactly what they have been programmed for. This is not 'just lying' as your limited perspective tells you, this is resourcefulness. Just because this test is made in a way that revolves around egoism (not turning on the light to prevent others from coming to the resource) doesn't mean that the robot is dangeours. It has just found a resourceful way to fulfill it's programming in the most effective way.

The robot is not doing anything wrong, actually, it is just doing what the programmer told it to do, it just changed it's way of doing so because apparently the initial road wasn't the most rewarding. Whatever AI is capable of doing in the coming years, it is all because of the programmer.
Pickysaurus
Computers already lie to the user anyway.
Like when Microsoft is installing something it says it may take several hours, and finishes in 10mins or vice-versa tongue.gif
NergiZed
Well. Huh. Fuck.

RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!

On a more serious note, I find that actually very cool. Though I think if we want to avoid wonderful things like Skynet, we should stay the hell away from robots with evolving program (or simply AI with evolving programing). At the very least we should put some hard-coded limitations into them.
Shiro
Programms evolving into better programms are already reality Nergi. We at our High School have several programms for Math and most sciences which rabble around until they find a fitting solution. Sometimes they generate codes no human would have ever expected to work. I just wanted to mention it wink.gif
Sargeant Rho
@Shock: Yes, I would in fact like to see them scrap Artificial Intelligence. It is awesome in sci-fi, but could easily become a nightmare in reality.
Pickysaurus
QUOTE (Sargeant Rho @ 20 Aug 2009, 17:56) *
@Shock: Yes, I would in fact like to see them scrap Artificial Intelligence. It is awesome in sci-fi, but could easily become a nightmare in reality.


Agreed. A single AI consciousness with access to the internet could bring down the entire world.
Shock
@Sergeant Rho, let me turn that around for you. AI becomes a nightmare in sci-fi, but is awesome in reality.

QUOTE (Pickysaurus @ 20 Aug 2009, 19:12) *
Agreed. A single AI consciousness with access to the internet could bring down the entire world.

Ehh, what makes you think an AI connected to the internet can do more damage than a hacker connected to the internet?
Pickysaurus
QUOTE (Shock @ 20 Aug 2009, 18:27) *
Ehh, what makes you think an AI connected to the internet can do more damage than a hacker connected to the internet?


AI can do a hell of a lot more multi-tasking than a single hacker. They first language of AI is also the first language of computers. Meaning no real interface is required. If the programme is smart enough, it would be unstoppable. Of course it'd cause chaos, but AI has no need for money, only information.
Shock
A single hacker can also run multiple programs at the same time, it's just the resourcefulness of a human mind connected with his computer hardware, which is essentially the same. But just because an AI has more computational power, does not mean the AI is omnipotently smart and über so that he can ''take down the entire internet''. Remember that in the Terminator movies, it was mankind who gave Skynet all it's powers, and it was only it's judgement alone that governed how the AI made use of the power. The movie is quite a ridiculous example actually, as mankind apparently also created a lot of anti personell killing drones ready for activation, in the middle of the united states, for what reason? It is totally unrealistic.

What if you gave such power to a sociopathic human being? Wouldn't he also be a similar danger to mankind? Why is an AI which can govern it's own actions necessarily evil, when the man next door who just bought a gun is hypothetically just as dangerous.
NergiZed
QUOTE (Shock @ 21 Aug 2009, 3:05) *
A single hacker can also run multiple programs at the same time, it's just the resourcefulness of a human mind connected with his computer hardware, which is essentially the same. But just because an AI has more computational power, does not mean the AI is omnipotently smart and über so that he can ''take down the entire internet''. Remember that in the Terminator movies, it was mankind who gave Skynet all it's powers, and it was only it's judgement alone that governed how the AI made use of the power. The movie is quite a ridiculous example actually, as mankind apparently also created a lot of anti personell killing drones ready for activation, in the middle of the united states, for what reason? It is totally unrealistic.

What if you gave such power to a sociopathic human being? Wouldn't he also be a similar danger to mankind? Why is an AI which can govern it's own actions necessarily evil, when the man next door who just bought a gun is hypothetically just as dangerous.

Oh you silly flesh creature.

Yes, I completely agree with your proposed hypothesis. A human hacker would have far more creativity and resourcefulness that a digital sentience. Thus humanity should concentrate it's efforts on removing human hacker threats, rather than waste time on trying to stop the creation of completely harmless Self-aware Artificial Intelligences.

Though I do believe that Mankind should build more drones operable via computer to quell the violent terrorists. Nothing like a hellfire missile into the abdomen to obliterate the meatbags, terrorist meatbags of course.
Shock
Is that sarcasm?
NergiZed
QUOTE (Shock @ 21 Aug 2009, 2:58) *
Is that sarcasm?

'Sarcasm' is a form of speech that I have yet to enter into my memory banks. However, for the sake of greater accumulation of knowledge, I will attemtp to emulate this 'sarcasm'.

[sarcasm] humanity shall one day be annihilated by superior self-improving digital sentients. [/sarcasm]

The sentence above, being sarcasm, should be be rather ironic, as I am a completely normal homo sapien and would not wish the destruction of our inefficient illogical species.
Shiro
Which is smarter than 8 years before (well, kinda) mindfuck.gif
Overdose


Its more like Futurama than T2 if 'ifyaknowwhatImean.'
CardBoardBoxProcessor
it is interesting it is such a small program. 250-ish bits (or was it bytes lol) is intresting...

RaiDK
STAAAAAARSCREEEEEEEAM!
Cobretti
Wow, I wasn't being serious with the Terminator video tongue.gif Seriously, this does seem like a major step forward in the development of AI.
NergiZed
QUOTE (RaiDK @ 21 Aug 2009, 8:58) *
STAAAAAARSCREEEEEEEAM!

LOL, biggrin.gif

You made my day, RaiDK.

Quoted For Epic Win.
Revan
This is incredibly awesome, related to my desired job (robotic's engineer) and even originates in my country, from one of the two big technical universities, to the other of which I plan on going to and I hadn't heared of it, lol. I see it as quite a big step in direction AI, which is definitively an important step into the right direction and will help us understand especially ourselves better.

Anyway, it has been mentioned in this topic before, how can an AI designed to imitate human behaviour be any more dangerous than humans which are granted the same power? And just because it is based on computer programming doesn't mean it can automatically control the internet or other machines any more than us humans do. It's not like we can have Chimpanzees do our bidding just because we're evolutonary related to them.
Shiro
QUOTE (Revan @ 22 Aug 2009, 13:58) *
This is incredibly awesome, related to my desired job (robotic's engineer) and even originates in my country, from one of the two big technical universities, to the other of which I plan on going to and I hadn't heared of it, lol. I see it as quite a big step in direction AI, which is definitively an important step into the right direction and will help us understand especially ourselves better.

Anyway, it has been mentioned in this topic before, how can an AI designed to imitate human behaviour be any more dangerous than humans which are granted the same power? And just because it is based on computer programming doesn't mean it can automatically control the internet or other machines any more than us humans do. It's not like we can have Chimpanzees do our bidding just because we're evolutonary related to them.

The problem what most people have with AI is that AI can be corrupted via virus programms etc. However, men can also be corrupted - with money, and that is what most people likely forget.
Alias
QUOTE (Revan @ 22 Aug 2009, 21:58) *
Anyway, it has been mentioned in this topic before, how can an AI designed to imitate human behaviour be any more dangerous than humans which are granted the same power? And just because it is based on computer programming doesn't mean it can automatically control the internet or other machines any more than us humans do. It's not like we can have Chimpanzees do our bidding just because we're evolutonary related to them.
The one thing computers have over us is speed.
A computer could corrupt hundreds of thousands of other computers in the same time it would take a human to corrupt a few.
A computer could launch dozens of missiles in the same time it would take a human to launch one.

What you're saying here is it's as easy to steal Usain Bolt's wallet as it is to steal an old lady's handbag. They're the same thing but one of them is a lot faster at doing what it needs to do: getting the wallet/handbag back. Thus just like Usain Bolt's wallet is something you don't want to steal, you don't want to have sentient computers either. They might have the same power as a human, but they could do a wrong thing a lot faster and more efficiently.
Shiro
QUOTE (Alias @ 22 Aug 2009, 17:52) *
The one thing computers have over us is speed.
A computer could corrupt hundreds of thousands of other computers in the same time it would take a human to corrupt a few.
A computer could launch dozens of missiles in the same time it would take a human to launch one.

What you're saying here is it's as easy to steal Usain Bolt's wallet as it is to steal an old lady's handbag. They're the same thing but one of them is a lot faster at doing what it needs to do: getting the wallet/handbag back. Thus just like Usain Bolt's wallet is something you don't want to steal, you don't want to have sentient computers either. They might have the same power as a human, but they could do a wrong thing a lot faster and more efficiently.

Interesting, and WHO says that AI could/will be dangerous once they become sentient? The main cause of faulty systems are the humans building them.
Alias
Sentience by definition is being aware of one's surroundings and being able to act in a manner to survive.
In terms of nature, typically the top dog survives the most, and the top dog has to get there by bullying the underlings.
Even though it won't happen immediately it's certainly going to happen soon enough.

Sentience is something that should be kept away from computers.
Shiro
QUOTE (Alias @ 22 Aug 2009, 18:10) *
Sentience by definition is being aware of one's surroundings and being able to act in a manner to survive.
In terms of nature, typically the top dog survives the most, and the top dog has to get there by bullying the underlings.
Even though it won't happen immediately it's certainly going to happen soon enough.

Sentience is something that should be kept away from computers.

The question is: do we have the right to say who is allowed to be sentient and who is not? Sure, we humans are the main species on this planet, however we do not stop to kill each other over small, nearly obsolete disputies? Would it make a difference if we were killed by other humans or -robots- ?
Alias
We are the creator of robots hence it is our choice what to do. The reason we "don't stop" to kill eachother is because of our sentience. It causes us to be greedy and self-centred.
Therefore the less sentient beings there are the better.
Pickysaurus
If computers become sentient they'll look down on the human race in shame. I'd say initially trying to help, but that same impulse to help would trigger and iRobot situation using computing logic
Revan
QUOTE (Alias @ 22 Aug 2009, 17:52) *
The one thing computers have over us is speed.
A computer could corrupt hundreds of thousands of other computers in the same time it would take a human to corrupt a few.
A computer could launch dozens of missiles in the same time it would take a human to launch one.

What you're saying here is it's as easy to steal Usain Bolt's wallet as it is to steal an old lady's handbag. They're the same thing but one of them is a lot faster at doing what it needs to do: getting the wallet/handbag back. Thus just like Usain Bolt's wallet is something you don't want to steal, you don't want to have sentient computers either. They might have the same power as a human, but they could do a wrong thing a lot faster and more efficiently.


In order for any machine to be corrupted the sentinent machine would first have to gain access to other machines. There is no reason it would have any more access to other machines than any other hacker's computer. Of course you could give it access but why would you? Artificial Intelligence is scientifically too interesting to not develop, but they can easily be studied without hooking them up to any other machines.
Shock
Furthermore, if a sentient machine has a way of 'corrupting' thousands of other computers because of it's own hardware speed, then why can't man, who for god sake programmed the AI, do the same thing by controlling non-sentient hardware by himself.

The leftover hiccup here is when the AI gets too smart and learns to program itself, at which point the brainpower will outsmart humanity.

Although, really, by the time that is evolved, the internet and computer networking will undoubtedly have changed in such a way that this discussion needs to be restarted by then.
Sgt. Damien
QUOTE (RaiDK @ 21 Aug 2009, 1:58) *
STAAAAAARSCREEEEEEEAM!

ROFL
Jester
QUOTE (Overdose @ 20 Aug 2009, 22:23) *


Its more like Futurama than T2 if 'ifyaknowwhatImean.'

i hope robots do end up like bender ''Bite My Shiny Metal Ass'' tongue.gif
Shiro
Hopefully they will not require alcohol for their fuel cells <.< >.>
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