Heavy Sniper discussion Options

[__CrUsHeR]

First I would like to say that Heavy Sniper is useful as an infantry, but I feel it is ineffective against vehicles (even against light vehicles), which apparently according to its description should be one of its strengths.

Considering that is the most expensive sniper in the game and unlocking T2 along with your hero is to be expected an infantry of greater potential within the arsenal of the faction.

I do not understand why the Heavy Sniper need to take distance to make the shot; which is strange and prevents becomes effective against fast units in defensive situations as a Techinical rush for exemple.

So I'd say a slight increase in its damage would be interesting.

It could also be interesting that the Heavy Sniper have two attack options: one dedicated for attacks against other vehicles (not attack infantry in this mode) and against infantry (not attack vehicles in this mode), as the ECA tends to have units with selective shooting modes (Grenadier, Leopard, etc.), with selectable multi-role capabilities.

I would like to hear opinions on this subject.

[Mizo]

I kinda think they are abit niche to be honest. I usually only feild them against buggies.

[Skitt]

there good for dealing with buggies and technicals, when they decide not to go point blank to shoot them that is

[Serialkillerwhal...]

Now if only they could garrison

[Kommandant Karis...]

I think one of the biggest issues is the delay before firing. From what I recall during my time experimenting with them, it can give Buggies enough time to fire their salvo and be off again without a scratch. Insufficient damage to one-shot them is also a bit problematic, especially if Junk Repair has been researched. I personally find myself relying more on Tigers and the like to counter them, rather than Snipers.

However, I haven't had many chances to use them against infantry, so I can't say how well they perform in that department.

[8igDaddy8lake]

First I would like to say that Heavy Sniper is useful as an infantry, but I feel it is ineffective against vehicles (even against light vehicles), which apparently according to its description should be one of its strengths.

Considering that is the most expensive sniper in the game and unlocking T2 along with your hero is to be expected an infantry of greater potential within the arsenal of the faction.

I do not understand why the Heavy Sniper need to take distance to make the shot; which is strange and prevents becomes effective against fast units in defensive situations as a Techinical rush for exemple.

So I'd say a slight increase in its damage would be interesting.

It could also be interesting that the Heavy Sniper have two attack options: one dedicated for attacks against other vehicles (not attack infantry in this mode) and against infantry (not attack vehicles in this mode), as the ECA tends to have units with selective shooting modes (Grenadier, Leopard, etc.), with selectable multi-role capabilities.

I would like to hear opinions on this subject.

Yeah, they do seem a little too niche at the moment for a $700 infantry unit. They have long range and one-shot almost any infantry (Shock Troopers are problematic there), but suffer against anything else. There are a few different things that could address this:
- No minimum range
- Able to garrison
- Uncrushable when deployed
- Slightly more damage
- Some kind of extra ability (maybe explosive Raufoss rounds? Or they could have a laser designator and the Howitzer Targeting ability that the Bloodhound has)
- Snipe infantry out of garrisons like Jaegar
- Shorter/no delay before firing

IDK, something to make them more viable. They almost cost twice as much as Pathfinders, with their only real advantage over them being a very long range and slight anti-vehicle capability.

[Hanfield]

I once had eight of them get crushed by a single Humvee. :T

[jlwh86]

slight damage buff would be good

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

The issue the Heavy sniper has atm is its really good vs gla... And thats it.
So yes, i like the ideas of giving it an anti vehicle ammo swap and reducing the min range.
the Snipe infantry out of garrisons idea may work seeing that grenadiers lost the ability, so it would be nice. Plus given how line of sight works in this game on really urban maps i cant think of any where it would be truly op on a dense urban map.

The idea to make them Uncrushable when deployed is a must. Seriously, they just get ran over more often than when they get shot down and because they cost $700 its not only economically shit, but gameplay wise it just feels really REALLY bad.

If we do all that, then i think we should remove the stealth. Ive never liked the idea of them stealthing tbh because it just feels exactly like the pathfinder, and i personally don't like the idea of clone units.

[ZunZero97]

Yeah, they do seem a little too niche at the moment for a $700 infantry unit. They have long range and one-shot almost any infantry (Shock Troopers are problematic there), but suffer against anything else. There are a few different things that could address this:
- No minimum range
- Able to garrison
- Uncrushable when deployed
- Slightly more damage
- Some kind of extra ability (maybe explosive Raufoss rounds? Or they could have a laser designator and the Howitzer Targeting ability that the Bloodhound has)
- Snipe infantry out of garrisons like Jaegar
- Shorter/no delay before firing

IDK, something to make them more viable. They almost cost twice as much as Pathfinders, with their only real advantage over them being a very long range and slight anti-vehicle capability.

agree with you

[Sanguivorant]

I would definitely not mind trading off its stealth for a smaller delay before firing and being uncrushable.

I believe this unit has the potential to snipe off artillery units unreachable by normal defences. In games vs. AI, I use heavy snipers to take out Buratinos or that other artillery unit they have before they either get close enough or destroy one of my defences.

This post has been edited by Sanguivorant: 22 Jun 2015, 10:01

[Vinrock]

The issue the Heavy sniper has atm is its really good vs gla... And thats it.
So yes, i like the ideas of giving it an anti vehicle ammo swap and reducing the min range.
the Snipe infantry out of garrisons idea may work seeing that grenadiers lost the ability, so it would be nice. Plus given how line of sight works in this game on really urban maps i cant think of any where it would be truly op on a dense urban map.

The idea to make them Uncrushable when deployed is a must. Seriously, they just get ran over more often than when they get shot down and because they cost $700 its not only economically shit, but gameplay wise it just feels really REALLY bad.

If we do all that, then i think we should remove the stealth. Ive never liked the idea of them stealthing tbh because it just feels exactly like the pathfinder, and i personally don't like the idea of clone units.

Agreed.

[XAttus]

let me tell you a cool story:

it's a 2.0 unit that got added ONLY because of buggies. That's the only reason you see them and can use them right now in 1.85. So it's not surprising that you find them a bit lacking but their purpose is to kill buggies, and they do that really well esp. in pandurs.

I'm sure they will stay the way they are so.. yeah. Keep this in mind and read my post before you go further with your ideas.

[__CrUsHeR]

it's a 2.0 unit that got added ONLY because of buggies.

Perhaps this is the problem; so to solve this impasse could be added in your description: "produces to deal EXCLUSIVELY with Buggys."

The idea of a unit designed solely to deter other unit is something weired and would be the first time in an RTS that I see something like this.

[DELETED MEMBER]

it's a 2.0 unit that got added ONLY because of buggies. That's the only reason you see them and can use them right now in 1.85.

Lets be honest, this is horrible design, specially since i dont feel they are very good in they only role, hell i actually find them pretty mediocre at it

[X1Destroy]

Crazy ideas:

-Anti-air sniper. Should be balanced by increasing the cost. Can only shoot at helicopters, useless against jets.

-Self-destruct upon being crushed by enemy vehicles.

-Suppressing volley fire with over 10 shots continuously, with a 30 seconds cool down. Will not hit the target everytime, though.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 22 Jun 2015, 13:06

[Knjaz.]

Lets be honest, this is horrible design, specially since i dont feel they are very good in they only role, hell i actually find them pretty mediocre at it

Might as well try to persuade SWRTeam to cut them off from 1.85 release, then.
ECA doesn't currently need a Sniper that is equal to pathfinder in their sniping role, balance-wise.

Also, why isn't this thread in 1.851 forum section? Heavy Snipers were changed in 1.851, their discussion should belong in there, imho.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 22 Jun 2015, 13:36

[__CrUsHeR]

Also, why isn't this thread in 1.851 forum section? Heavy Snipers were changed in 1.851, their discussion should belong in there, imho.

I do not remember to see any topic dealing with Heavy Sniper there, anyway this topic can be moved.

[8igDaddy8lake]

let me tell you a cool story:

it's a 2.0 unit that got added ONLY because of buggies. That's the only reason you see them and can use them right now in 1.85. So it's not surprising that you find them a bit lacking but their purpose is to kill buggies, and they do that really well esp. in pandurs.

I'm sure they will stay the way they are so.. yeah. Keep this in mind and read my post before you go further with your ideas.

Keeping that in mind, I'm trying to suggest things that are only slight buffs, and not going to completely imbalance everything. Personally, I think the Howitzer designate ability and/or anti-garrison snipe would be enough to make it viable and have a distinct role besides Buggy zapping. But honestly, I still sometimes use them as extra long-range support for my defensive lines anyways.

[Mizo]

I'd prefer if they werent crushable by Viechles.

[teslashark]

-Self-destruct upon being crushed by enemy vehicles.

YEEEEEEEESSSSS!

[M01]

Yeah, they do seem a little too niche at the moment for a $700 infantry unit. They have long range and one-shot almost any infantry (Shock Troopers are problematic there), but suffer against anything else. There are a few different things that could address this:
- No minimum range
- Able to garrison
- Uncrushable when deployed
- Slightly more damage
- Some kind of extra ability (maybe explosive Raufoss rounds? Or they could have a laser designator and the Howitzer Targeting ability that the Bloodhound has)
- Snipe infantry out of garrisons like Jaegar
- Shorter/no delay before firing

IDK, something to make them more viable. They almost cost twice as much as Pathfinders, with their only real advantage over them being a very long range and slight anti-vehicle capability.

Some comments on yours
- It has a minimum range (very low to low)
- code wise that would be impossible, (see the grenadiers/1.851 Pioneers reason why it can't enter structures)
- this might actually useful
- I thought 1.851 Heavy Sniper's deployed stealth was it's special ability?
- point taken but Jager can now engage both ground vehicles, structures and clear infantry in garrisons
- or make the first shot upon seeing a target (or just faster deploy rate would be good if we choose the venom protocol

If you want to make them very useful, make three of them reach heroic and deploy them at choke points or to defend derricks/tech buildings (1.851)

Btw is there any benefits these guys receive when we choose venom protocol (except the move speed bonus)

PS this thread needs to be moved to the public beta testing thread (just sayin')

[Mcbob]

Since they are a non-garrison, deploy to fire, uncrushable would be great. Additionally, it would be nice to have a spotter guy with the main sniper.

[(USA)Bruce]

Since they are a non-garrison, deploy to fire, uncrushable would be great. Additionally, it would be nice to have a spotter guy with the main sniper.

This would make them unable to switch places in a pandur with a felin....and it would make it unable to enter a lynx.The second part is key for me atleast I love to assault and ambush buggys who think they got the upper hand agaisnt me.

[Mcbob]

This would make them unable to switch places in a pandur with a felin....and it would make it unable to enter a lynx.The second part is key for me atleast I love to assault and ambush buggys who think they got the upper hand agaisnt me.

Oh my glob I completely forgot about this. Nevermind then, hah!